Really confused - R380 gearbox issues on Discovery 2

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Cirl Bunting

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Hello all and thank you for letting me join your forum. My main reason for joining is because I am beyond confused with the gearbox in a Discovery 2 which I inherited from my father-in-law.

Father in law was not a mechanical genius and the Discovery took a few knocks but rarely went above 50mph. When we got it, it had done about 140k miles and was already on its second gearbox (R380, manual). I have no idea who fitted the gearbox but they didn't do a good job, long and short bolts to the transfer case were in the wrong place, they couldn't even get the bias plate right. I got these issues sorted and carried on for another 5000 miles or so.

Earlier this year the replacement gearbox died. Input shaft flapping around all over the place.

My local garage (who are very good) insisted I use a very highly regarded Land Rover transmission specialist who do recon gearboxes. I'm not naming them at this stage but they are well regarded and nobody I know has ever heard of a problem with them.

Recon gearbox turns up in April and we did the clutch and flywheel (replaced DMF with single mass LOF whilst in there).

Recon gearbox won't select gears.

Sent it back and got another recon gearbox from the same company.

1000 miles later, with no towing or hard work, this gearbox has died. Just got it out and input shaft flapping about all over the place.
I've asked every mechanic I know and no-one's got a clue. Transmission specialist says it could be crankshaft endfloat (2mm at most), it could be fitting a non genuine DMF (which seems unlikely as the clutch and flywheel came out fine and look perfect, not like they'd destroyed a gearbox in 1000 miles)

Sorry, bit of a long post but has anyone ever come across this before? Something is destroying these input bearings and I'm pretty sure it's not the clutch. Could the bellhousing be bent?

Putting in yet another gearbox and hoping that'll fix it has to be the definition of insanity?

Thanks in advance for any answers!
 
Welcome to the forum!
Best of luck with solving this.
Did the recon box people get the original box as an exchange so they could look at it and give you some warning or a few more clues as to why it went?
Did they tell you why their other box wouldn't select gears?
 
Thank you. The recon people sent us a video of them stripping the box that wouldn't select and said there was nothing wrong with it (they also refused to pay for the garage taking it out twice, but the garage are good blokes and let that pass).
I didn't hear anything back from them about the first box, but it was pretty obvious the input bearing had had it as the input shaft was all over the place...
They are one of the most highly regarded Land Rover transmission specialists in the country - even looking them up on this forum, nobody has anything but praise for them...
 
Cirl Bunting said:
Thank you. The recon people sent us a video of them stripping the box that wouldn't select and said there was nothing wrong with it (they also refused to pay for the garage taking it out twice, but the garage are good blokes and let that pass).
I didn't hear anything back from them about the first box, but it was pretty obvious the input bearing had had it as the input shaft was all over the place...
They are one of the most highly regarded Land Rover transmission specialists in the country - even looking them up on this forum, nobody has anything but praise for them...
Click to expand...
I'll message you.
 
Yes, everything done through flywheel to all clutch components. It really seems to be a mystery... all clues welcome, thank you
 
Cirl Bunting said:
Thank you. The recon people sent us a video of them stripping the box that wouldn't select and said there was nothing wrong with it (they also refused to pay for the garage taking it out twice, but the garage are good blokes and let that pass).
I didn't hear anything back from them about the first box, but it was pretty obvious the input bearing had had it as the input shaft was all over the place...
They are one of the most highly regarded Land Rover transmission specialists in the country - even looking them up on this forum, nobody has anything but praise for them...
Click to expand...

Ashcrofts.
 
kevstar said:
Spigot bush in the flywheel was replaced wasnt it.
Click to expand...
Cirl Bunting said:
Yes, everything done through flywheel to all clutch components. It really seems to be a mystery... all clues welcome, thank you
Click to expand...

Just to be clear/pedantic - the spigot bush is in the end of the crank and is what stops the input shaft waggling around at the front end. Replacing all the other flywheel and clutch components doesn't change the bush - It might pay to check very specifically that it was done... but EVERY garage should be well aware of that already!

Is it now running a DMF, or solid flywheel - you say the solid went in in april with the first recon?

Are the rebuilders happy that it's got a solid flywheel?

Assuming the bellhousing pulls up flat onto both surfaces, a machine shop should be able to check the surfaces are parallel with decent precision... but a couple of straight edges, a measuring stick and some extra hand should be close enough anyway.

Do the rebuilders not have any useful suggestions?
 
I am wondering if the bearing was getting sufficient lubrication and/or if the recon lot have got a dodgy batch of input bearings.

As others have said, wear like this can only happen if the bearing surfaces are not equally touching all round, i.e not squint, if the bearings are not of proper quality and/or size or if there is inadequate lube.

I'd be tempted to put a secondhand box in from a decent breakers and see what happens, after checking all the above stuff first.
 
Even a small misalignment will ruin input shaft bearings in little time. I would very carefully check the dowels between the back of the engine and the bell-housing. Any slop here could leave the axis of the crank and the axis of the input shaft offset from each other, thus leading to misalignment.
 
Tall Ratbag said:
Even a small misalignment will ruin input shaft bearings in little time. I would very carefully check the dowels between the back of the engine and the bell-housing. Any slop here could leave the axis of the crank and the axis of the input shaft offset from each other, thus leading to misalignment.
Click to expand...
+1^^^
 
Thank you all so much for your replies, what a brilliant forum you've got here. I should have joined years ago as I've got a 110 but I know it inside out and it never goes wrong (touch wood). Unlike father in law's Discovery!
To answer some of the suggestions above, gearstick springs all fine, the reason it won't go in to gear is because the input bearing has had it.
The spigot bush was replaced, definitely.
The rebuilders were not that happy with a solid mass flywheel but to be honest he's saying anything he can to suggest it's not his gearboxes causing the problem. If a recon gearbox is wrecked in 1000 miles of easy driving purely because of not using a OEM dual mass flywheel then that doesn't say much for the box, does it? It's a full clutch and flywheel kit from LOF, there seems to be nothing wrong with it at all.
I will go out and measure the bellhousing, the dowels and get a straight edge on anything else I can think of. Very useful to know that if they're not perfectly aligned that would wreck the input bearing.
Second hand box from a breaker is also a good idea - I'll get the bellhousing with it if I go down that route.
Thanks all!
 
Cirl Bunting said:
The rebuilders were not that happy with a solid mass flywheel
Click to expand...
Hi. Nor will be your vehicle... IMO those who sell these things and say it's good instead of a factory fitted DMF dont give a sh*t on what it will cause on a long run, it will kill the gearbox in time.... it can be an option for those who are using the vehicle ocasionally only for off road not as a daily driver especially if it's used on motorways too. I also fell for the advertising and some forums long time ago and fitted one... ended up by paying the mechanic again after short time and fit a proper DMF cos i was fed up with jerks in low gears and the vibrations on motorways. Bad choice IMO
 
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I don't agree that a solid flywheel will kill the gearbox, I've had one fitted for over 100k miles and my gearbox is just fine - you MUST fit a clutch plate with integrated springs however.

As for vibrations and jerks, I think that comes down to driving style, if you like to sit very low down in the revs then a solid flywheel is probably not going to work for you... but I'm talking way low down below the optimum torque of the engine, so sub 1200 rpm where you're probably not really in the most economical band for a TD5.
 
Bennehboy said:
I don't agree that a solid flywheel will kill the gearbox, I've had one fitted for over 100k miles and my gearbox is just fine - you MUST fit a clutch plate with integrated springs however.
Click to expand...
My statement was about fitting a solid flywheel instead of the DMF as i did, without any other enhancements, those vibrations and jerks i experienced would have killed the gearbox at a time IMO, or maybe not but it was a huge disconfort... the jerks were especially when the clutch was released on low gear changes(from 1 to 2, 2 to 3 or vice-versa) and not at low rpms... which now seems normal to me knowing that the DMF is supposed to "deaden" that torsional stress. Each to his own but i'd never fit a solid flywheel again no matter what.
 
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Thanks for your thoughts. I've experienced no rattles or jerks with the single mass flywheel and yes, it came with all the clutch components as a kit. Looking at it all (now it's out) I can't see any issues there. Whatever the rights and wrongs of single mass flywheels I'm pretty sure it won't have killed a gearbox in 1000 miles of normal driving. Got a bit busy farming today but the bell housing is going to get some serious scrutiny. Thanks all for your help!
 
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