Series 3 Quicker Steering.

Actually the L322 (probably more cars too) changes the PAS pressure as speed goes up so changes sensitivity.
Reducing lock to lock is all about levers or gearing, but you know that.

But I must say your machine work is excellent

J

That's variable assistance, an option I already have access to if I feel I need it, the mechanical rate is fixed by geometry.

Tap arrived today so one step nearer. The shaft has also been turned down ready for the male thread to be cut.

Very nice work.

Chopz said:

Smaller steering wheel obviously

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lol, that won't actually reduce the turns lock to lock

Male thread added and counter bore machined in for drag link ball joint. I need to cut the tie bar down to length and will probably need to shorten the drag link a bit.

Colthebrummie said:

I think spinner knobs are illegal on road vehicles in the UK.

Col

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Sorry just catching up on a few threads but as regards spinner knob's since when was they made illegal as I've always had them mainly on works vans, disco's I've owned in the past and I even had one on my 90 I sold last year and the steering on my 2a is quite lite so was hopeing to fit one to that

Just seen some advertised for sale in the last few days whist trawling the net.

I think its been raining every weekend since I made this adaptor, this weekend at last it was looking dry.

In the meantime I've been doing a bit of background work. Clearly there is a concern that this will increase the loading on the entire steering system, particularly in low speed situations. I don't have any figures to compare against but there appears to be plenty of evidence to suggest that Series steering is up to the job of supporting larger wheels and tires.

I manged to find an online tyre data calculator and if I pump in numbers for a typical 7.50" wheel tire combination and the popular 235/85 16 wheel tire combination I can get some numbers for the contact patch area. The numbers come out at 220cm2 for the 7.50 and 336cm2 for the 235/85. That's a 50% increase in contact patch area, if we assume we get a proportional increase in friction then that also means a similar increase in force though the steering and that's without the additional force due to the wider wheel with its increase offset. I understand that this conversion should reduce the number of turns lock to lock by about 25% so I'm reasonably confident about the loads being OK.

Anyway, a couple of pictures showing the conversion being fitted.






So its all bolted up and the tracking has been done and I've ended up going from 3 3/4 turns to 2 1/4 turns lock to lock, rather more reduction than I had expected.

Its been out for a couple of test drives just to make sure all is well. I can report that it all works extremely well, obviously takes a bit of getting use to but the steering is nicely weighted, you get noticeably more self centring and of course it makes all those tight urban manoeuvres that much easier, BUT something is not right. At low speeds, around 15 to 20 MPH a bump can send the steering into a wobble, nothing particularly violent or long lasting but not nice. I had may concerns about the geometry before starting on this. The tie bar is free to rotate on its ball joints and the drag link feeds into this tie bar. I've tried to arrange it so a virtual line between the two drag link ball joints intersects with the centre of the tie bar ball joint next to the adaptor. Operating the steering at rest there is no apparent twisting of the tie bar but it seems that when a wheel hits a road bump this tie bar can oscillate, this then has the effect of putting in a small steering input and the oscillations build up.

So its all been taken off and returned to stock, its been fun but ultimately futile.

That is a great shame considering the amount of work you put into it. Are you not tempted to progress the idea to see if you can eliminate any wobble?

Col

Full marks for trying. I remember the first trials car I built in 1969, my own design of chassis/suspension/steering. Danced like a dolly on rough surfaces and vicious bump steer. It did improve with alterations suggested by the older guys (I was 21) who had more experience. Ultimately the car was not what I expected and I built a second car with more conventional set up.
Did you ever think of the insurance problems as a "Modified Vehicle" ? Just thinking out loud of how to explain the mods to an underwriter.
Thanks for showing us your efforts. Chris.

Colthebrummie said:

That is a great shame considering the amount of work you put into it. Are you not tempted to progress the idea to see if you can eliminate any wobble?

Col

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Cant see an easy way around it, I need to be able to stop the tie bar rotating freely around its ball joints while still allowing the steering and suspension to move.

divie said:

Did you ever think of the insurance problems as a "Modified Vehicle" ? Just thinking out loud of how to explain the mods to an underwriter.

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My insurance company have been remarkable relax about mods so far, when I told them about the power steering conversion they just added a note to the file, nothing else was requested and there was no change in the premium. Its my task to make sure any modifications are safe and be prepared to defend my work if required and accept the consequences if its found lacking. This is of course the same for anyone who has made any significant changes to a vehicle, if you decide to put in a 200TDi your insurance company may not bat an eyelid but equally in the event of an accident someone may point out that Land Rover felt the need to restrict the V8 to 90 hp and you've dropped in a 110 hp engine.

It sounds like a combination of bump steer and some resonance. I suspect the orginal geometry is more precise / critical than it looks. The angle of the drop arm tie rod has changed slightly and there is now a twisting force on the tie rod on bumps.

Certainly something like that, standard system has loads of bump steer but as you say that's not normally fed into the tie bar as a rotational force and given that the relationship between the drag link and tie bar is constantly changing with both steering and suspension movements I don't think I stand a chance of eliminating this feedback.

The only way I can see would be to have a shorter steering arm so the steering rod is on the same plane as it was when standard.
I made up shorter steering arms for my grass track car years ago, worked a treat in speeding up steering and increasing lock but cut and welded arms would not have done for the road. Never broke though.

I think your right, a shorter steering arm is what's required but its a rather complex shape to try manufacture. One possible alternative would be a shorter input lever to the relay but that's still a lot of work. Like I say, its been fun trying to do it but I don't think its going to happen. Best thing about the Land Rover is there is always something that needs doing or something that could be modified.

Anyway you could fit a steering damper like on the later coil spring models? Or does it already have one?

Series three already has provision for a steering damper. I have never felt the need to add one.

There is a bolt on damper bracket on your dumb iron, i would be inclined to fit a damper before scrapping all your hard work...

I'm remided of the saying: "there's no such thing as failure, only more data.." which is fine and true but sometimes its nice when the "data" points the right way.