Potential Disaster- Advice Needed

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Good morning gents. Got back from holiday this morning at 4.30am. Wide awake at 8.30am with only one thing on my mind.
Initial investigations are confirming the runaway. But at the moment I don't understand how cos turbo initially seems ok, so need some thoughts.
This is the top of the intercooler
IMG_5807_zpshqy1udrm.jpg


This is the air inlet to the turbo, so oil has either ran back in to it or coming in via the breather. Am I right in thinking there is a small breather that feeds in to this?
IMG_5808_zpskyhgdtml.jpg


The inlet to the turbo seems cleanish though. You can see a few finger marks where I have been testing it. I can't detect any movement and it is turning smoothly.:confused:
IMG_5810_zpsfrfsitzg.jpg


Stuck my finger in the turbo outlet.
IMG_5814_zpsxydwuxh2.jpg


I'm busy draining what oil is left out of the sump. It's cold, so going slowly, but I reckon I'll be lucky to get half a litre. :(

Lying underneath and looking up there is oil coming down from both sides of the engine. Clutch slave cylinder covered, starter motor covered, all around the block. Obviously, it's blown around a bit from the fan and road wind when it was travelling.
I've just stopped for latte and toast (Mrs has got up) So put these first pictures up and I'll go out and do more investigations. I'm taking the cyclone breather pipe off next. There has been oil around that and I thought it was the O ring where the cyclone breather goes in to the head. I've changed it twice in the few weeks thinking oil was running down, but maybe the pipe is leaking and the oil has been blowing up! Rambling now, so I'm away back out.
 
Morning Al hope you enjoyed your jolly's !
TURBO is crackerd !:eek: There Should NOT be that much OIL in there !
Cheep way is to get second hand turbo if it's a daily driver & you need it on the road !

Steve
 
I know if you are reading this it's like shooting in the dark compared to looking at it in real life as I am. A little bit of good news is that I've got almost 2 litres of oil out of it. That may mean the bores and piston rings have got a slightly better chance!
Took the rocker sound sound cover off to find this.
IMG_5816_zps1jzbvfqa.jpg

It looks oilier in real life.

Took the air filter box off
IMG_5817_zps8pxtgvfc.jpg

Again, it looks oilier in real life.
This is oil on the bulkhead.
Don't know if it has been blown there or sprayed there.
IMG_5819_zpsk5zigtfa.jpg


The turbo will have to come off. I'm 90% sure it must have had a runaway for a short while. Couldn't run it with any confidence now anyway without a turbo refurb.
I've bought a compression tester which should come med week
 
Hi Al NEW or S/h Turbo ! IT won't help with the jubilee clip not being up on your cyclone pipe:eek:
If you will take a bit of ADVICE leave the top cover OFF!
When I cooked mine the TOP cover had got that HOT it set on fire :eek::eek: (well smouldering away for 10 min while I waited for a tow in) & IF it had not been on I would have found where the water leak was coming from :mad::mad::mad:
IF it were mine I would strip the manifolds OFF ,clean ALL the OIL OFF stick some oil in & fire it up it should run (be it a bit loud LOL) That way you will HEAR if the bottom end is still OK !

Steve
 
Magicgrotto said:
Hi Al NEW or S/h Turbo ! IT won't help with the jubilee clip not being up on your cyclone pipe:eek:
If you will take a bit of ADVICE leave the top cover OFF!
When I cooked mine the TOP cover had got that HOT it set on fire :eek::eek: (well smouldering away for 10 min while I waited for a tow in) & IF it had not been on I would have found where the water leak was coming from :mad::mad::mad:
IF it were mine I would strip the manifolds OFF ,clean ALL the OIL OFF stick some oil in & fire it up it should run (be it a bit loud LOL) That way you will HEAR if the bottom end is still OK !

Steve
Click to expand...
I've just unscrewed the cyclone pipe to have a look at it :) the pipe seems ok. I've new ones ready though.

I'm wondering of my oil leak is due to a failed cylinder head gasket? Normally you hear of water loss, oil in water, water in oil. However, I presume you can get a head gasket go where the symptoms are oil leaking out on to the engine and no issues with water?
 
Started taking the manifold off. Worryingly the gasket had splits in it on both sides.
IMG_5820_zpsbjyfspvc.jpg

It was the same on the other side in the exact place.
This is the inlet of the air manifold. Filthy. Full of oil and cr@p as I've never removed the EGR
IMG_5821_zpsqgb68ct0.jpg


Anyway, the manifold came off ok except the oil feeder pipe has a big nut securing it to the block. You can just see it here.
IMG_5823_zpsbykrnacx.jpg

It's the bigger one at the bottom.
Don't know what size it is and was stumped until I duct taped a pound coin on to a 32mm spanner ;)
IMG_5826_zps8dgqn0xr.jpg

Eventually got it off.
IMG_5824_zpssuwg31v2.jpg

Lifted the manifold up to have a look at the turbo and all this oil ran out.
IMG_5825_zpsthlhaiqc.jpg

It must have come out from where it had collected up against the EGR valve.
The turbo spins ok, but it's got a fair bit of lateral movement.

Any thoughts on the split gasket, possible cylinder head gasket failure causing oil oil leakage. Is it easy to remove the turbo boost actuator without altering settings?
Cheers.
I've not had a lot of sleep so I'm leaving it for now, going in the shower and watching the rugby which is on record. :)
 
Magicgrotto said:
:) You found the problem Al ! TURBO cracked :mad: + that gasket wont help ! NEW or S/H turbo new gaskets & your up & running :):):)

Steve
Click to expand...
So do you reckon that's it! I can't understand why there is oil everywhere. If the turbo was sucking oil through it's seals and burning it, how is there oil over over the engine, splashed up the bulkhead, all over the chassis, exhaust etc. I reckon it did run away a bit, but the Mrs reckons there was no smoke. Or, there was so little it was not enough for her to notice.
 
Tony e said:
Hope theres no other damage due to lack of oil;). Might be ok as it didnt rev to long.:)
Click to expand...
The Mrs has spoken to the husband of a friend at work who has a minibus taxi business. He told her he has had two run aways and managed to stop them. Fitted refurbed turbos and engine was ok, so my fingers are crossed.
 
Tony e said:
Mine to. Best of luck. Dont know if its possible for the turbo to cause that much pressure that it has pressurized the oil and that may have throne it every were. Just a thought o_O
Click to expand...
No idea either, Tony. Hopefully, someone will be able to shed a bit more light on it given my particular symptoms.
 
Hi Al when my turbo went I din't let it go as far as your's as gone so i can not say where all your oil has come from ! + mine did not run away ! I was only doing very short journeys So the motor did not get has hot ! & I think this is wot causes them to run away !
 
Magicgrotto said:
Hi Al when my turbo went I din't let it go as far as your's as gone so i can not say where all your oil has come from ! + mine did not run away ! I was only doing very short journeys So the motor did not get has hot ! & I think this is wot causes them to run away !
Click to expand...
Ok, cheers. How did you know yours had gone?
 
Maybe with that gasket failure as well as the turbo leaking oil into the inlet tract, the oil was blowing out between the inlet manifold and the head. Get a new turbo (or maybe just the inner cassette and swap the snails over) and see if it will run. Chances are that because it didn't run away for long there could be loads of life left in the engine. Even if you do need to strip the engine, you'll need a turbo anyway.
 
Brown said:
Maybe with that gasket failure as well as the turbo leaking oil into the inlet tract, the oil was blowing out between the inlet manifold and the head. Get a new turbo (or maybe just the inner cassette and swap the snails over) and see if it will run. Chances are that because it didn't run away for long there could be loads of life left in the engine. Even if you do need to strip the engine, you'll need a turbo anyway.
Click to expand...
You might be on to something there, Brown. The gap, missing bit, in the gasket is large. Not a huge amount of oil in the gap on the picture, but might look different in reality. I'll have a better look, cheers. I've got a compression tester on it's way, which should give me more info about state of the engine.

Saint.V8 said:
Was it common to both the Tdi's or only the 200Tdi for the HG to fail into an oil way (usually no4 and I think it is into the push rod hole!) and then start ingesting its own oil?
Click to expand...
No idea! That doesn't sound great though :( It hasn't been creating any smoke to speak of though? Just some light coloured smoke on start up which I initially suspected as a fuelling issue. It doesn't explain the oil around the engine and dripping down. I still haven't identified where it's coming from. It's hard to tell with the oil all over the place. I think I'll have to wait until the manifold is back on and then clean it down with gunk to try and find out where it's coming from.
I'll google that head gasket failure to see if it's a 200 or 300 issue. Many thanks.
 
I just imagine it spraying out of the crack like an aerosol. Something's happened to mist the entire engine bay with oil. And as there are no other obvious leaks, I suspect it's blown through the gasket with the turbo pressure.

If oil was getting into the combustion chambers via a head gasket fault, it would need to be getting directly into the cylinder. If it was just going from an oil gallery to a push rod hole it would merely drain back down into sump and go round again. Maybe a little loss of oil pressure, but you wouldn't see it burning any more oil than usual. Anyway, there don't seem to be any other head gasket symptoms that anyone's mentioned, so let's assume it's OK until evidence to the contrary shows up.
 
No I am sure the common fault is from the No4 Piston to the push rod hole....as the piston descends it sucks oil into the chamber....if it is on an exhaust stroke it pushes it into the exhaust manifold through the turbo, and if it is on a power stroke it combusts on its own oil supply....

When I mentioned and oil way, I meant the no8 pushrod hole....
 
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