P38A Possible coolant in oil

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MikeFl4

Active Member
Posts
104
Location
Ireland
Hi everyone.

I have a 1999 P38 M51 diesel. Have had it for about 5 years now. Its got 232K miles, but I believe the engine has been swapped at some stage as there was an engine number change on the logbook around 2010 (So I cant confirm the mileage on the engine)

Anyways, my question is - The car has been sitting in my garage for a few months, I pulled it outside but at around 2k rpm, the engine had a weird hesitation and a misfire. I assumed that maybe some diesel had got into the oil and was causing it to thin out, causing low oil pressure and maybe one or two hydraulic lifters were not correctly operating. Oil level was on full mark and black (as you would expect on a diesel)

I was going to add in some thicker oil to see if it would solve my problem, but since the level was already full I decided to drain out a little from the sump. To my complete surprise, instead of oil, I drained out about 500ml of water. Its a kind of clear brown/orange ish colour. I put red/pink coolant in to my car but since I've been having a slow leak from the heater core bypass on the engine block (below the thermostat of course, annoying spot to get to) I have been topping it up with water until I got a chance to tackle the job.

At the moment, the coolant expansion tank appears to be completely empty.

Is there any spot in the engine where coolant could potentially get into the sump without it meaning I have a cracked head or failed head gasket?

I honestly cant think of anything, the P38 is one of those vehicles where every system has its own cooling loop (engine oil cooler, gearbox, coolant etc, none of these share the same radiator)

I figure the answer to my question is - cracked head or head gasket failed - Just kind of surprising to me as the car has been driving great, never overheated, if it wasn't for that hesitation, I wouldn't have ever assumed I had so much water in my oil.

I'm also assuming, its not mixed into a milky sludge since the car has been sitting, I took it for a CVRT (Irish MOT) only about 2 months ago and it was a flawless drive there and back (50km round trip with hills etc).

No milky residue or anything on the oil cap either, so it appears the engine was never ran for long enough for water and oil to have mixed. It appears water has trickled down into the oil from somewhere only in the past 2 months when the car was sitting unused?

Only other possibility is that the water has frozen in the block and cracked it, but I don't think this is the case, the engine runs great and always has, its also kept indoors and it honestly hasn't dropped below freezing for about 2 years where I live.
 
Hi everyone.

I have a 1999 P38 M51 diesel. Have had it for about 5 years now. Its got 232K miles, but I believe the engine has been swapped at some stage as there was an engine number change on the logbook around 2010 (So I cant confirm the mileage on the engine)

Anyways, my question is - The car has been sitting in my garage for a few months, I pulled it outside but at around 2k rpm, the engine had a weird hesitation and a misfire. I assumed that maybe some diesel had got into the oil and was causing it to thin out, causing low oil pressure and maybe one or two hydraulic lifters were not correctly operating. Oil level was on full mark and black (as you would expect on a diesel)

I was going to add in some thicker oil to see if it would solve my problem, but since the level was already full I decided to drain out a little from the sump. To my complete surprise, instead of oil, I drained out about 500ml of water. Its a kind of clear brown/orange ish colour. I put red/pink coolant in to my car but since I've been having a slow leak from the heater core bypass on the engine block (below the thermostat of course, annoying spot to get to) I have been topping it up with water until I got a chance to tackle the job.

At the moment, the coolant expansion tank appears to be completely empty.

Is there any spot in the engine where coolant could potentially get into the sump without it meaning I have a cracked head or failed head gasket?

I honestly cant think of anything, the P38 is one of those vehicles where every system has its own cooling loop (engine oil cooler, gearbox, coolant etc, none of these share the same radiator)

I figure the answer to my question is - cracked head or head gasket failed - Just kind of surprising to me as the car has been driving great, never overheated, if it wasn't for that hesitation, I wouldn't have ever assumed I had so much water in my oil.

I'm also assuming, its not mixed into a milky sludge since the car has been sitting, I took it for a CVRT (Irish MOT) only about 2 months ago and it was a flawless drive there and back (50km round trip with hills etc).

No milky residue or anything on the oil cap either, so it appears the engine was never ran for long enough for water and oil to have mixed. It appears water has trickled down into the oil from somewhere only in the past 2 months when the car was sitting unused?

Only other possibility is that the water has frozen in the block and cracked it, but I don't think this is the case, the engine runs great and always has, its also kept indoors and it honestly hasn't dropped below freezing for about 2 years where I live.
HGF is less common on the M51 than a cracked head but that usually leads to overheating. I think it's too much to be due to condensation. The hesitation might well be due to condensation in the fuel tank which may have cause bacterial growth in the fuel. Sorry I can't think of anything else.
 
HGF is less common on the M51 than a cracked head but that usually leads to overheating. I think it's too much to be due to condensation. The hesitation might well be due to condensation in the fuel tank which may have cause bacterial growth in the fuel. Sorry I can't think of anything else.
Thanks for the reply, I just wanted to post something in case I was going crazy. Seems like it will be some kind of mechanical failure causing this issue.

Unfortunately don’t think it’s the fuel issue, once I removed the water from the sump, hesitation went away and engine runs great as it always has. Just the problem now to figure out how water got in there in the first place.

I got a block tester yesterday, will check coolant tank for exhaust gasses and go from there. Luckily I have a spare engine, just surprised I’m using it so soon.
 
Only thing i can think ,,is diesel getting in through front pump seal ,n that might cause a small misfire on startup an a thin watery liquid in the sump ,possible maybe..
 
If you pull a glow-plug out with the valves closed on that cylinder and use an airline to pressurise the cylinder it might narrow down problems. Take the top off the expansion tank. If water ****es out the expansion tank then probably cracked head. Hissing at intake or exhaust manifold could be relevant valve. Hissing elsewhere might be HG.
 
Only thing i can think ,,is diesel getting in through front pump seal ,n that might cause a small misfire on startup an a thin watery liquid in the sump ,possible maybe..
Good thinking, unfortunately though, The first little bit I drained out - I stopped for awhile to try figure out what it was - definitely no diesel smell, no smell at all to be honest so probably just super watered down coolant.
 
Definitely water not diesel? Jammed injector might let diesel past rings i to the sump, although water foing missing doesn't sound good.
If you pull a glow-plug out with the valves closed on that cylinder and use an airline to pressurise the cylinder it might narrow down problems. Take the top off the expansion tank. If water ****es out the expansion tank then probably cracked head. Hissing at intake or exhaust manifold could be relevant valve. Hissing elsewhere might be HG.

Next step for me will be block tester, unfortunately haven't gotten a chance since the weekend to work on it. Kind of in two minds at the moment as its still running and driving now for moving purposes to want to keep it that way (3 tonne paper weight is not fun to move around without a working power plant)

I haven't refilled the coolant expansion tank, but I will probably figure out what's wrong quickly enough once I do.

I do think I figured out what happened to explain why the sudden, large quantity of water appeared in the oil. I have been having a weird starting issue for around a year, when left sitting for a few weeks, the engine would be hesitant to turn over some times. I put this down to a flat battery/corroded cables. I replaced the cables and have been keeping the battery on a charger since. But, what I think was happening was - coolant was leaking into one or two cylinders over a few weeks - then when I would try to turn over the engine, it was lightly hydro locking on a few cylinders, giving the starter circuit a hard time leading to me suspecting battery etc. I moved the car back inside yesterday evening, when turning over the engine (after sitting for a day) I heard a loud clunk/bang, then it turned over as normal and started. Quite a bit of bad smelling white smoke from the exhaust though.

So all in all, more than likely a long term tiny crack in the head, which I got away with for a long time, but inevitably, has now hydro lock damaged my engine...
 
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