please help

Hi guys,i am new on here and trying to help a mate whos not good with computers.anyway he owns a td5 disco and tonite he broke down and i went and towed him home.after asking a few questions it seems his wife has put petrol in the tank and the car has been driven about 10 miles before it stopped.i need to know what parts do you think are damaged.engine,pump? also whats the best course of action and can anyone recomend a garage in the staines middx area. thanks for any advice you can offer.
mick.

mickymole said:

Hi guys,i am new on here and trying to help a mate whos not good with computers.anyway he owns a td5 disco and tonite he broke down and i went and towed him home.after asking a few questions it seems his wife has put petrol in the tank and the car has been driven about 10 miles before it stopped.i need to know what parts do you think are damaged.engine,pump? also whats the best course of action and can anyone recomend a garage in the staines middx area. thanks for any advice you can offer.
mick.

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How much diesel was in the tank? How much petrol was added?

he may be lucky in that the vehicle cut out due to the amount of petrol in the tank. How competent is he at undertaking his own repairs? For the drain down alone he will be looking in the region of £200-£600. This is assuming no damage has been done. If he is fairly competent he can do the job himself. First of all the fuel tank needs emptying. Make sure that you have enough 'suitable' containers to put the fuel in. To do this it can either be removed or an old electric fuel pump from the scrapyard can be used to empty it. we aren't allowed to use electric pumps any more in the motor trade so we use a vaccuum instead. When the tank is empty the next stage is to change the fuel filter. If another filter isn't available. Unscrew the water drain valve on the bottom of the filter and let the contents out into a container. When the filter is empty re-tighten the drain. This too must get ditched. Re-fill the fuel tank with 10-20 litres of fuel. Turn the ignition on and listen for the in tank fuel pump whining. If you're lucky it'll work. If you're unlucky it won't. Assuming the pump is working, when it cuts out pump the accelorator pedal 5 times. It should restart and carry on for a couple of mins. Do this 2 or 3 times. After the third time glow up the glow plugs and attempt to start the engine. It may sound slightly rattly to start with but it will quieten down after a while. It may also smoke a bit to start with too.


Good luck mate

My mate filled our diesel transit with petrol once, luckilly he realised as soon as he'd done it. we took it to the garage and they drained the system replaced the filters etc, flushed the system and it was sorted, about 9 months later the fuel pump died on it and was apparently because of the earlier fuel mix up, the garage will also charge u quite a bit to dispose of the old fuel hence the reason we've got about 90L of petrol diesil mix in our garage. Some garages will tell you you need new injectors/pipes etc, some wont, its not gonna be cheap though mate i wouldnt have thought. That was on a Transit, Might be different on a TD5.

Right .... I did that in July 2008 .... about 80 litres of unleaded into a DIESEL TD5 Disco .. Filled it to the brim! The pump nozzle and hose were BLACK. Bugger!

This was in SURREY, and I live in SCOTLAND ...... 420 miles to get home.

We did drive it all the way home though it was a bit of a struggle at times at the beginning as over two-thirds of the fuel was petrol. As soon as it started running a bit funny we looked at the fuel receipt --- UNL 80 litres O MI GOD!

Struggled to a garage off motorway, tossed a couple of litres of engine oil into the tank and brimmed it with diesel .. it started ... back on the motorway... running not quite so bad now .... cruising 55-60 was OK ..... got the fuel down and filled it again with diesel .... got home (what a relief!) ... tossed in some more engine oil and brimmed it with diesel .... and kept topping it up to keep the percentage of petrol as low as possible.

Mine was very smoky on start up for a week after my stupidity, and I was very worried I had wrecked something big time, but I kept calm as the car was driving fine once it was warmed up and driving on the road. In fact it drove normally. Over the next few days the smoke on start-up became less and less, and stopped all together after about a week. What a relief! That was in July, and now it's the next February, and there's been no problem since.

After a little worry it is now fine, and NOTHING WENT WRONG, and NOTHING NEEDED FIXED!

First off , more than likely NO DAMAGE WILL HAVE BEEN DONE TO YOUR CAR!!!!

Your engine stopped (died on you) more than likely because petrol vaporised in the gallery in the head and stopped the injectors from filling up properly. Reducing the proportion of petrol in the fuel is the answer, until there is NONE.

Next, HOW MUCH PETROL DID SHE PUT IN???

If it was a whole tankful, syphon it out and use in your car. In fact, doing that would be a good idea anyway, BUT

If it was LESS than half a tankful, here's what you can do .

DO NOT START THE ENGINE.

But turn the key to IGN to make the fuel pump run. Have someone in the driver's seat (she will do) to hit the throttle pedal to the floor FIVE TIMES every time the pump stops while you are doing the next bits.

For every gallon / 4.5 litres of petrol that went in the tank pour about a litre of the cheapest engine oil you can get into the tank, and keep the fuel pump running to mix the tank contents. Using jerrry cans or the like, fill the tank well up with real diesel.

Now start her up. and take her for a drive. Avoid hard driving, and use up the fuel in the tank in normal driving over the next days, but fill it every time it gets from full to three-quarters or so.

Carry a spare FUEL FILTER, and know how to change it. Petrol in the fuel may loosen all sorts of crap and cause a filter blockage.

Most of all - KEEP CALM !! DON'T PANIC!!!! I am confident you will be OK!

Let me know what you decide to do, and your dear wife is not the first or only or last to put petrol in a diesel tank.

CharlesY

ok guys,thanks for all the help and advice and i am pleased to say the disco is running fine. we drained about 15 gallons of mixed fuel out by draining from the filter,then with some fresh fuel she started first time.needless to say my mate is one happy bunny.thanks again for the advice.
regards mick.

mickymole said:

ok guys,thanks for all the help and advice and i am pleased to say the disco is running fine.

we drained about 15 gallons of mixed fuel out by draining from the filter,then with some fresh fuel she started first time.needless to say my mate is one happy bunny.thanks again for the advice.
regards mick.

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Just to add my bit - I did this to my Freelander in Switzerland. It struggled to the top of an alp and I only realised what had happened when I couldn't start it again after I stopped to stare at the view. The local man drained the tank by unclipping a pipe and using the car's own pump to empty the diesel. Filled it with new diesel and no problem afterwards. Europ asssitance paid for the tow, and I paid to dispose of the fuel.
A bit of petrol in fuel shouldn't hurt, so if you have a lot of the mixture, you can put in a litre or two of the mix every time you fill up with diesel. Adding a bit of petrol was an old lorry driver's trick to stop the diesel fuel waxing in winter.

PASTMASTER said:

Just to add my bit -
A bit of petrol in fuel shouldn't hurt, so if you have a lot of the mixture, you can put in a litre or two of the mix every time you fill up with diesel. Adding a bit of petrol was an old lorry driver's trick to stop the diesel fuel waxing in winter.

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Be wary of petrol into any of the TD5 systems. Paraffin and kero and white spirit would be a lot better. However, in my army transport days, in the winter we always lobbed in one can of army petrol for every three or fouir cans of diesel, and we NEVER had a truck freeze up its fuel or fail to start.

The problem in TD5s is that because of the way the Lucas-Delphi injectors work, the return fuel from the cylinder head is extremely hot, and certainly hot enough to vaporise (BOIL!) the petrol and turn it into vapour. It is this vapour that stops the engine from running. The VERY HOT fuel passes though the fuel cooler which brings the temperature DOWN to about 70 degrees centigrade, right on the flash point of petrol. Then the return fuel heads back to the filter and the tank. The potential for an extremely serious FIRE is very real, and that was my main concern. I carry a big extinguisher in the back but I don't think it would have had any effect on 70 or 80 litres of burning petrol in a plastic tank under my Disco.

If the Disco is a bit smoky on start up, don't worry. It will clear as soon as you drive off.

Well done for asking the forum and saving HEAPS of cash by not needing to call a main stealer.

CharlesY

CharlesY said:

Be wary of petrol into any of the TD5 systems.
The problem in TD5s is that because of the way the Lucas-Delphi injectors work, the return fuel from the cylinder head is extremely hot, and certainly hot enough to vaporise (BOIL!) the petrol and turn it into vapour. It is this vapour that stops the engine from running. The VERY HOT fuel passes though the fuel cooler which brings the temperature DOWN to about 70 degrees centigrade, right on the flash point of petrol. If the Disco is a bit smoky on start up, don't worry. It will clear as soon as you drive off.

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Good point CharlesY (as always). As you say though, shouldn't hurt to add the petrol/diesel mix gradually into any of the older engines. Sell it to a TDi owner at a discount?

The fuel mix will not be wasted,i have about 20 gallons and it will be added to half a tank of fuel in my honda africa twin.Should give me cheap riding for a while.
mickymole.

mickymole said:

The fuel mix will not be wasted,i have about 20 gallons and it will be added to half a tank of fuel in my honda africa twin.Should give me cheap riding for a while.
mickymole.

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Keep an eye on your oil level and spark plugs.

Much of the diesel in the fuel will not burn off and will end up in the sump after fouling your plugs. Take care!

Better to add it to the tank of an older diesel.

CharlesY

****ed fuel pump injecters id say i know some one who done that in a Td5 and cost him £2000 to have repaired

Becky B said:

****ed fuel pump injecters id say i know some one who done that in a Td5 and cost him £2000 to have repaired

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We got past that stage, and the car seems to be OK.
I did the same to mine 8 months ago and got away with it .... whew .... !

CharlesY

Hi.

I've just had a call from a mate who's mum has just put a little Petrol in her Diesel Astra.

Before I give him advice I wonder if someone here can confirm my thoughts from this thread.

First off the car is one of those modern performance diesels (Thorley motorsport I think)

She only put about 1 1/2 litres in before realising. The trp said she had about 60 miles left so about 10 ltrs in the tank already.

Rather than draining I want to sudgest a litre of oil in the tank then brimmed with diesel.

Is the oil Ok in a modern engine?

Then just keep the tank topped up for a few weeks.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers

Brian

Brian S said:

Hi.

I've just had a call from a mate who's mum has just put a little Petrol in her Diesel Astra.

Before I give him advice I wonder if someone here can confirm my thoughts from this thread.

First off the car is one of those modern performance diesels (Thorley motorsport I think)

She only put about 1 1/2 litres in before realising. The trp said she had about 60 miles left so about 10 ltrs in the tank already.

Rather than draining I want to sudgest a litre of oil in the tank then brimmed with diesel.

Is the oil Ok in a modern engine?

Then just keep the tank topped up for a few weeks.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers

Brian

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What year is it? Is it a CDTI engine or a DTI? I am guessing it's a CDTI due to the fact that it shows the fuel range on it.

DTI's aren't too bad and are farely tolerent. CDTI's aren't quite as forgiving due to the electric fuel pump in the tank. However......

Due to the small amount thats been put in I would say her best course of action is to fill the tank to the brim with diesel and drive on. On the older engines the AA and RAC used to say a max of 10% contaminated was ok. The newer engines are 'alledgedlly' 0 tollerance. At 3% contamination in a full tank I rekon the risk is minimal.

Fill it up and drive it on.

Cheers mate.

They did that and have just text me to say they got home ok.

They will keep it above 3/4 tank for a while, then 1/2 and hopefully after a few weeks go back to normal.

Thanks again

Brian

There are two snags with petrol in diesel,

petrol is a NON lubricant, so pumps and injectors can come to harm if there's so much petrol in the fuel that the lube effect of diesel oil fails.

petrol VAPORISES at a measly 70-ish degrees C, and in Disco TD5 systems, and many common-rail types, the fuel can end up hot enough to cause the petrol to boil and make big bubbles of gas in the fuel system, and the engine STOPS right there.

But a small amount, even maybe 10% will be OK. No harm.

In my case I was 420 miles from home when I put 68 litres of unleaded petrol into my Disco's tank, and after only a few miles it wasn't running at all well. We were on the motorway when I realised what the problem was, and managed JUST (I had to use low range in traffic to keep the revs up to keep it going) to get off the motorway and find a filling station. Tossed in some engine oil, and brimmed it with diesel. Got home. Whew .....

I am going to try very hard not to do that again.

CharlesY