P38a brake 'failure' with a happy ending!

A heads up just in case anyone else had the same signs prior to the 'failure'

2001 4.6 with 135k on the clock, with the three lower left lights coming on when applying the brakes, spoke to a couple of folk that said I shouldn't worry, it's probably a small fluid leak in the main pressure chamber interacting with the pressure switch. Brakes worked fine, so I wasn't unduly concerned, mot pass etc...until driving in Cambs this last week on a trip south, fortunately in slowish traffic on the A14. Applied brakes and the heart stopping-palpitating moment happened..no discernable braking, OMG, still 50 miles to go to my over night stop!

So drove very slowly with multiple lorry distances between me and the vehicle infront, with heart in mouth thinking how do I get off the road at my junction and..all sorts of not great scenarios going through my head.

Anyway got to my destination somewhat late. Fortunately I used to live in the region and knew that I could drive the back way across country to a specialist LR workshop and beg some help. The long and short of it having talked to the guy that diagnosed the problem/solution is that the pump was no longer working. Second hand one sourced and all fine after a days running around. The lesson I was told though and the sign that might be useful for others that the failure is close was..upon turning on the ignition, the reservoir (nitrogen filled?) should click a few times to recharge the system, mine didn't...it clicked for a second! also the three lights, ABS yellow, Red hand brake and orange TC lights should never come on together..!

Happy ending, brilliantly helpful specialist, will tell whom ever if they wish to know who they are, and fab brakes now and I didn't hit anything or fall off the road somewhere in Glencoe on the way down south!!

Thanks for the heads up on that one, was not what I thought the problem was going to be, so now we all know, cheers.

Pump normally runs for a few seconds each time you start the car, at the beginning of the day anyway.

Grrrrrr said:

Pump normally runs for a few seconds each time you start the car, at the beginning of the day anyway.

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Pump can run for up to 40 seconds on startup. Car must not be driven until T/C lamp goes out.

Whoever said the 3 amigos lights coming on was 'fine' shouldn't be advising people on things like braking.

I had it on my first P38 and and the garage at the time (this was 10+ years ago back in NZ) said that it was a sign of low brake pressure, and generally means the accumulator needs replacing. Which is what should have been advised for you when you mentioned it! If the accumulator is shot, then the pump will run any time brakes are applied to provide the pressure - which works it more, and then burns the pump out over time... as you've found out.

Glad it has a happy ending though, and you got it sorted by someone who knows what they are talking about.

Thank you for your replies and distinct warning as mentioned re who to believe..i'll ask the forum next time!

Interesting though until you drive one that's not showing those symptoms what is 'normal' I of course now know..but the technician who used to work on Thor & Gem engines said the black bulb on the pump was a, can drive immediately reservoir, in case you got to the end of your driveway without the pump having done its bit. Have to say I'm much more cautious now and wait, as Wammers suggested, until the lights gone out...

Quick question..As you guys seem to have been around the LR scene for a bit...dampers/shock absorbers..? Mine are tired (front) and off road ones newish at the rear..leading to a dire ride..thoughts for the best replacement please, not so worried about cost rather the end result, I don't do off roading although, living where I do some would say every day is like off roading up here!

H&I P38 said:

Thank you for your replies and distinct warning as mentioned re who to believe..i'll ask the forum next time!

Interesting though until you drive one that's not showing those symptoms what is 'normal' I of course now know..but the technician who used to work on Thor & Gem engines said the black bulb on the pump was a, can drive immediately reservoir, in case you got to the end of your driveway without the pump having done its bit. Have to say I'm much more cautious now and wait, as Wammers suggested, until the lights gone out...

Quick question..As you guys seem to have been around the LR scene for a bit...dampers/shock absorbers..? Mine are tired (front) and off road ones newish at the rear..leading to a dire ride..thoughts for the best replacement please, not so worried about cost rather the end result, I don't do off roading although, living where I do some would say every day is like off roading up here!

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No matter what anyone tells you standard Boge shocks are the best. They give a 25% compression resistance and a 75% rebound resistance. And are designed for the air suspension. If you get a set, the longer ones go on the front. Front and rear are NOT interchangeable unless you want to blow the rear bags off their mounts. Fronts STC3672 rears STC3671.

wammers said:

No matter what anyone tells you standard Boge shocks are the best. They give a 25% compression resistance and a 75% rebound resistance. And are designed for the air suspension. If you get a set, the longer ones go on the front. Front and rear are NOT interchangeable unless you want to blow the rear bags off their mounts. Fronts STC3672 rears STC3671.

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There's your answer. The man's spoken and he's right. Even better, they're not that expensive.

Brilliant thank you and the part numbers too..outstanding..off to source them now

I'd recommend the standard, like wammers has suggested, I have heavy duty shocks on mine because of where we live. But it has lost its buffered ride qualities. Also don't go for over lengthened units... Unless you like the sound of popcorn!! As wammers says.
Standard are what it was designed for.

Whatever you do, don't buy the Britpart ones advertised as OEM. They're not and are rubbish!
Cheapest source for Boges used to be (and I'll whisper it) Island at around £24 + vat, but they don't have them at the moment. Brit Car have Boges available.

I've been looking; Bilstein c£75 fronts c£65 rears each..Rimmers a whopping £142 & 108..for originals or c £25...am i being a numpty but a third of the others for good kit, can that be true? thanks Orangebean..Brit Car looks the best source but slightly confused of the H&I's .. OPR2 Boge and Boge without any pre numbers very similar price but? and also a B after 3671/2 anything i should be aware of, i do have working EAS btw..Thanks...

PR2 is the labelling Allmakes used to use use on their best stuff.
A bit like some of the shocks are branded Bearmach, but have BOGE as the manufacturer, the same probably applies to Allmakes, Eurospare or whatever.
Until you know for sure, talk to BritCar. They will be happy to confirm or deny that the original manufacturing source is Boge. I've had to do it myself with them, for (I think) a panhard rod. One was advertised as Lemforder, the other was Bearmach with Lemforde (sic) as the manufacturer. The Bearmach was indeed Lemforder manufactured with a Bearmach label partially over the Lemforder one, and considerably cheaper!

That's a great heads up thank you i'll call on Monday..cheers

I've got Monroes fore and aft and the rides pretty appalling to be honest - it doesn't help having poly bushes all round also.

It just seems so harsh, a lot of roughness in the cabin, bit difficult to describe.