[P38] Exhaust gases in coolant

blue_cheese · Tuesday at 12:08

Thanks again all for your input, it's greatly appreciated.

I'm going to pull some spark plugs and see if any look obviously cleaner than the others.
I'm also doing my reading and pricing up the tools required to DIY it or get it done by a garage instead.
None of my local LR 'specialists' seem to be able to do HGs!

kermit_rr · Tuesday at 12:19

norseman said:
A liner problem is easy to diagnose, but hopefully that is not your problem as the condition is terminal.
If you have a slipping liner the engine will be quiet when cold but as it starts to warm a distinct metallic tap (at piston speed not valve gear, which is half that) will be clearly audible.

this was mine

blue_cheese · Tuesday at 12:28

Doesn't sound like mine is making that noise, so fingers crossed the liners are in good condition.
I've been in touch with a local machine shop who can measure + resurface the heads if necessary, so some progress is being made.
When I moved house a few years back, I left a lot of my good tools behind. Silly decision in hindsight, now I may have to re-invest in some good ones if I'm to do this myself.

I figured even if I can't put it back together myself, at least I've saved a garage some time in stripping it down for them to do it properly.

pwood999 · Tuesday at 12:41

Remember many of the nuts & bolts on the V8 heads & block are Imperial due to it's USA origin, so always check. The rest of the P38 is metric.

Francesco M. · Wednesday at 08:01

blue_cheese said:
Thanks again all for your input, it's greatly appreciated.

I'm going to pull some spark plugs and see if any look obviously cleaner than the others.
I'm also doing my reading and pricing up the tools required to DIY it or get it done by a garage instead.
None of my local LR 'specialists' seem to be able to do HGs!

Carry on the tradition, we support you

blue_cheese · Wednesday at 09:44

Appreciate your support.

I've been doing a lot of reading up over the last day, and I'm quite interested in getting flanged liners fitted.
Has anyone here had it done recently? I'd like a once-and-forever solution just in case I have a cracked or porous block.

Trying to price it up, but I would need a garage to remove the engine, and then get it taken to a machine shop for work. I've seen a pre-fitted block for £1500 on eBay, maybe that could be worth a go.

What are your thoughts?

MrGorsky · Wednesday at 10:14

I had mine rebuilt by V8 Developments last year. I was happy with them. They do a replace service where you take your engine out, they send you a new one, and you send your old engine back. They then use that to re-build for the next customer. It means you could convievably swap the old for a new in a long weekend. Rusted bolts and siezed fastenings aside! I wanted my original engine back so I had to wait a while longer.

Work included...

4.6L Top hat linered block
New pistons
New piston rings
New main bearings
New big End bearings
New cam bearings
New core plugs
Fully balanced assembly
Pocketing of pistons
Lapped and polished crank
High torque standard cam kit
Cam
Timing chain set
High rev Lifters
Running in oil and additive
Comp head gaskets
Comp head bolts
Standard recon cylinder heads
Acid dipped and chemically cleaned
New valves
New guides
New valve stem seals
New valve springs
All required gaskets and seals
Labour
Fully refurbished rocker assemblies
Recon and fit exchange front cover, including new oil pump gear and uprated oil pressure relief valve kit, fit exchange sump
Collection of original engine

The whole shooting match. It's basically a brand new engine, probably better than the Rover original. You're looking at four grand though. Mine had more wrong with it than a blown HG though!

FEI · Wednesday at 10:19

The flanged liners isnt something ive done yet, but the moment my engine gives me an excuse to rebuild it i will be fitting flanged liners. Probably the Darton Sleeves from Turner engineering.

kermit_rr · Wednesday at 10:25

The liners should have been lipped and ribbed when the engine was made, there was no technical reason not to, not even a cost reason, they just decided it wasn't needed

kermit_rr · Wednesday at 11:29

If top hats are done right, you've got a seal at the bottom of the liner and another at the top. In conjunction with ARP studs, i reckon you have a pretty bullet proof engine

MrGorsky · Wednesday at 11:33

That's how it was explained to me by V8Developments. O rings at the top and bottom mean even if the block does crack, the coolant can't go anywhere, it just turns your dry liner block to a wet liner block.

Add the additional clamping force from the flanges means the whole thing is stronger and stiffer.

blue_cheese · Wednesday at 12:04

It all sounds very tempting. I might get in touch with V8 Developments and find out what the process is.
I'm willing to throw a bit of money at it to secure its longevity (and resale value).

Only problem is getting the block out - definitely don't have the equipment for it at home. I'll have to find a garage that can take it out, keep the car in the meantime, and get it fitted again.

MrGorsky - did you have to arrange shipping of your engine, or did they handle it?

MrGorsky · Wednesday at 12:11

blue_cheese said:
It all sounds very tempting. I might get in touch with V8 Developments and find out what the process is.
I'm willing to throw a bit of money at it to secure its longevity (and resale value).

Only problem is getting the block out - definitely don't have the equipment for it at home. I'll have to find a garage that can take it out, keep the car in the meantime, and get it fitted again.

MrGorsky - did you have to arrange shipping of your engine, or did they handle it?

You have to get it on a pallet, empty of all fluids, and strapped down, and when you're ready they send a courier to get it. Took about 24hrs I think.

I had to rent an engine crane to get mine out, and you need a tall one too because of the reach.

Here it is out and on the pallet.

Here's the new engine going back in.

As you can see, our crane wasn't tall enough (couldn't rent the same one I used to get it out) so we had to improvise with the wholly unsafe "iron bar" extension approach to be able to lift the back of the transfer box as it went in.

Got there in the end though.

It was jolly good fun.... but I'm never doing it again!

marjon · Wednesday at 13:03

We did our 4.6 back in 2011. It was around 120k if I remember.
Went with V8tuner great service and paid the core cost as sending back (we air frieghted it) from here was not worth it.

The thing is do you just bite the bullet now, or do HGs/head skim (thats about 20-25% of a linered engine) before it does turn out to be liners

.
It served well till we got the L322.
But the engine+box is sitting on my garage floor with a spares car (whats left) the engine will live again.

Its a big investment, but for piece of mind if its a keeper it is worth it. Lets face it if you keep it another 5yrs then the cost spread is not much, as modern cars go

, (man maf at its best

).

Resale value I have no Idea but would certianly help sell.

J

MrGorsky · Wednesday at 13:23

I'd say do a compression test. If that's good, then just change the HG. It's mostly easy to do. If you've got no or low compression on multiple cylinders you're probably looking at a rebuild anyway and you can decide what to do then.

Even just taking the heads off will tell you if it IS the HG or not. If it is, you know what to do, if you get it all apart and the old HG looks perfect, then you know you're dealing with something worse....and you can decide what to do from there.

Getting an otherwise usable engine rebuilt is not really worth it if all you need to do is change a head gasket to get it running again.

kermit_rr · Wednesday at 14:09

For what it's worth, mine didn't show the expected "steam cleaning" you're supposed to see when the block cracks and the liners slip

pwood999 · Wednesday at 16:23

MrGorsky said:
I'd say do a compression test. If that's good, then just change the HG. It's mostly easy to do. If you've got no or low compression on multiple cylinders you're probably looking at a rebuild anyway and you can decide what to do then.

Even just taking the heads off will tell you if it IS the HG or not. If it is, you know what to do, if you get it all apart and the old HG looks perfect, then you know you're dealing with something worse....and you can decide what to do from there.

Getting an otherwise usable engine rebuilt is not really worth it if all you need to do is change a head gasket to get it running again.

Exactly. A full HG kit is around £100 depending what you buy. Adding ARP studs & maybe a selection of other nuts & bolts is another £200. At least 10 times less than liners & essentially a full rebuild.

If the liners are slipping they will either be a few thou below or proud of the block face. Also they tick loudly as they move up & down with the engine running. Scanning various forums it seems to be a more common problem in hot climates.

marjon · Wednesday at 16:33

pwood999 said:
Exactly. A full HG kit is around £100 depending what you buy. Adding ARP studs & maybe a selection of other nuts & bolts is another £200. At least 10 times less than liners & essentially a full rebuild.

If the liners are slipping they will either be a few thou below or proud of the block face. Also they tick loudly as they move up & down with the engine running. Scanning various forums it seems to be a more common problem in hot climates.

And labour?
Can @blue_cheese do it himself? He has already said he couldn’t get an engine out with what/where he is.
I understand heads are different, but.

J

MrGorsky · Wednesday at 16:45

marjon said:
And labour?
Can @blue_cheese do it himself? He has already said he couldn’t get an engine out with what/where he is.
I understand heads are different, but.

J

Aye. DIY is a weekend out of your life, minimum.

nigelbb · Friday at 09:33

blue_cheese said:
It all sounds very tempting. I might get in touch with V8 Developments and find out what the process is.
I'm willing to throw a bit of money at it to secure its longevity (and resale value).

Only problem is getting the block out - definitely don't have the equipment for it at home. I'll have to find a garage that can take it out, keep the car in the meantime, and get it fitted again.

MrGorsky - did you have to arrange shipping of your engine, or did they handle it?

I had V8 Developments completely rebuild my engine nearly two years ago. They did a complete turnkey job removing & replacing the engine. I just dropped the car off then collected it later. Be aware that you may need to wait some months before they have a 'slot' to fit you in. I went for standard tune at a total cost of getting on for £7K. The original quote was about £6K but there was some project creep including new Magnacore plug leads, running in the engine on a dyno before refitting, wrapping exhaust manifolds, new engine mounts, uprated flex plate etc

I had done 175K miles before the engine rebuild & am now just over 190K miles with the engine running as sweet as a nut. I intend to keep the car for the rest of my life so regard the £7K as a good investment.

[P38] Exhaust gases in coolant

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