Over heating problem

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will have to follow this thread closely... my 200tdi started to overheat too... :(

last weekend I got stuck in a mud pit, of course all the mud got stuck to the rad on the way home the temp started to go up, but I stoped as soon as it got the white line before the red, 3/4? (usually it just sits in the middle...) gave the rad a wash, kept going home but still overheated again to 3/4 on the temp gauge.
the next day i washed all the fins on the rad and got it cleaned.

Today went out and started overheating again... had to stop and was some pressure in the expansion tank and when looking inside, the water was dirty, like muddy....
So I took the expansion tank out, cleaned it, refill and kept going... but still overheated.

What can be causing the water in the expansion tank to get muddy? a crack somewhere?I don't have any leaks at all, my drive is always spotless..

Also, to stop the landy overheating, I wacked the air inside to full heat and that kept the needle in middle of temp gauge, but going uphill the temp was going up a bit..
 
sounds like the rad is knackered - last time i removed a 200tdi rad to clean it the damn thing fell apart!! looked ok through the grille but soon as it was out the car and on the ground the fins and veins just fell out in a pile of dust.

spoke to a few people at the time and this is quite a common thing apparently, and symptoms of mud in the coolant sound alot to me like rad fins. also some of the mud may be plugging up a potential leak, so just cause you cant see a leak dont assume the rad is good.

Mark
 
the rad doesnt look too bad to be honest, but then again, it just "looks" ok.. here's a pic after I cleaned all the mud out last weekend.. what do you think?

4215_177544125612_727855612_6712582_784637_n.jpg
 
I hope I am not the bringer of doom but if you were stuck did you see the red overheating light come on at all?

If not it is possible that the extra heating up has caused partialy blocked tubes to loosen the crud and it has blocked them completely now it is possible you need to recondition the rad.

A worse case scenario is if your head gasket was on it's last legs then it is possible this was the last straw ect and has finaly let go, I would sort the rad first assuming all other avenues have been checked, the thermostat for example under the extra heating may have failed, it is a cheap 'suck it and see' first port of call.

I hope this helps, I presently off road a 200tdi here in Spain with the air con on, I think I have seen every cause of overheating under the sun (no pun intended).

regards

Dave
 
Hi Dave...

well, the red overheating light never came on at all, I always keep an eye on the temp gauge, so as soon as i saw it moving over the middle, I kept even more attention on it, so it only went up as far as 3/4 of the gauge..

I did think the headgasket could have gone with the added pressure, but the oil seems alright, and I dont get any smoke when accelarating or starting the engine.. (if head gasket gone I would get white smoke?I think...?)

but yeh, first job is changing the thermostat and while im at it, drain all the water out the radiator, stick a garden hose to clean the inside and take all the hoses off and clean/inspect..

and then keep my fingers crossed....
lol

but... any idea why the water in the tank was muddy/dirty? or when you say the extra heating up caused partialy blocked tubes to loosen the crud , this is the reason why the water was dirty?
 
[JP];765869 said:
I did think the headgasket could have gone with the added pressure, but the oil seems alright, and I dont get any smoke when accelarating or starting the engine.. (if head gasket gone I would get white smoke?I think...?) but... any idea why the water in the tank was muddy/dirty? or when you say the extra heating up caused partialy blocked tubes to loosen the crud , this is the reason why the water was dirty?
Click to expand...

First you have to allow for the gauges being a little bit slow so the engine could have been hotter or even cooler than you think.

Second, a head gasket can fail in all manner of ways for example, the oil feed through the head can fail allowing oil to leak out of the side of the engine and yet the engine to run perfectly. A gasket could fail between the oilway and the water jacket, this can lead to oil in the water (apparent dirt in water) and gets worse everytime the engine is run and vice verse and yet the engine is still running ok....ish.

When the engine is running the oil pressure is higher than the water jacket but, when you switch off the oil pressure falls to zero and the cooling system does not.

The gasket could fail enough to allow water to seep into the cylinder and cause white smoke (steam?) out of the exhaust, in a worse case scenario the gasket can let so much water in once the engine is switched off after a run (cooling system pressure no cylinder pressure) that the engine refuses to crank (hydraulic lock?), or the gasket can seep just enough to allow combustion pressure into the cooling system hence the raise in temperature.

Either way I would go the thermostat route first working towards the rad and see how it goes. Do not use a strong rad flush compound because apart from eating through a weak radiator (obvious by the big leak) you may end up eating through the heater radiator as well which can also block with time, FWIW the heater rad is not too bad to change if you have patience.

You probably know most of this anyway so sorry if anything sounds condescending, obviously I do not know your mechanical skills.

This issue of the crud loosening after overheating (or as near as dammit) is quite common as is a hose about to collapse finally does as the rubber has lost it's strength due to heat. I have experienced house radiators that have worked perfect for years to fail after a new boiler was put in which was crud and not an air lock, this is a perfect example IMHO.

Hope this helps

regards

Dave
 
Last edited:
i have the same problems the temp is fine normal driving then on the M way if goes right up but ive changed the pump thermostat and its still the same
 
discopaul said:
i have the same problems the temp is fine normal driving then on the M way if goes right up but ive changed the pump thermostat and its still the same
Click to expand...

Well if you have read this thread all the way through you now have some leads, hope you get it sorted.

regards

Dave
 
thanks for that Dave,

didn't know about all those bits!
Going to start working on it during the week, starting by checking if the thermostat is working properly.
 
[JP];766026 said:
thanks for that Dave,

didn't know about all those bits!
Going to start working on it during the week, starting by checking if the thermostat is working properly.
Click to expand...


For the price of a thermostat, if I were you I would get one in stock before the weekend and just change it. They only cost about £4 !!

Flushing the rad with a hosepipe never does any harm as well.
 
thebiglad - yeh, I did think of that, afterall its not that expensive...

but next Sunday I'm going to the Old sodbury landrover sortout, so it's likely i'll find one there and as the landy is not my main transport, im not in a hurry, specially as it hasnt rained here for the last month!

But my work plan is the following:

test/change the thermostat and at the same time drain all coolant and water, take all the hoses that are connected to the rad and inspect and also stick a garden hose on the top of the rad and let it run till clear water comes out underneath...

any precautions I should have doing this?
is it ok to disconnect every hose from the rad, then just simply connect all back and put coolant and water in?
actually.... I only have to put coolant in right?
need to check what's the process to refill everything back on again...suppose the haynes should say
 
[JP];766144 said:
thebiglad - yeh, I did think of that, afterall its not that expensive...

But my work plan is the following:

test/change the thermostat and at the same time drain all coolant and water, take all the hoses that are connected to the rad and inspect and also stick a garden hose on the top of the rad and let it run till clear water comes out underneath...

any precautions I should have doing this?
is it ok to disconnect every hose from the rad, then just simply connect all back and put coolant and water in?
actually.... I only have to put coolant in right?
need to check what's the process to refill everything back on again...suppose the haynes should say
Click to expand...

OK as pointed out the stat is cheap so replace anyway. Next it is ok to take all the hoses of however, pouring water in from the top of the rad is pretty pointless, you need to take the rad out and flush backwards (rad upside down if you get my meaning?)

Also while you are there disconnect the heater hoses from the engine and stick a hose in one pipe leading to the bulkhead and then swap until the heater runs clear. Flushing the rad can help but to be honest with summer coming I think a replacment may be needed, if it is in your budget it is the best way to go.

Before refilling connect all the hoses except one heater hose, mix your antifreeze with water to the strength you require in a bucket and fill slowly via the plug in your thermostat housing or more likely in the rad, keep mix on the strong side as there will be some water left in the heater rad ect.

Keep watching for water starting to come out of the disconnected heater pipe, when it does stop flling and refit the heater hose and then continue filling to the level mark in the expansion tank, or the rad is full and fit the plug, this helps with air locks as does doing all this with the car is level.

Start up and look for leaks, keep an eye on the level marker in the expansion tank and keeping adding your mix untill the level stays constant.

Leave to idle for ten to fifteen minutes, during this time the heater hoses should start to heat up and your heater should be warm. Keep an eye on the expansion tank level and when it starts to rise and/or no more bubbles are seen in the tank fit the cap. Eventualy the top hose will become hot as the thermostat starts to open and water starts moving through the rad.

Go for a gentle run around the block and park up and switch off, go for a cuppa and bacon sarney leave for a couple of hours and recheck the level top if need be.

That's it, now fingures crossed and go for a drive.

regards

Dave
 
Ive had this everytime ive been off roading, turned out 15 years of mud couldnt be removed from the 4 inch thick radiator by just washing the front, in the end took 1.5 hours with jet wash and cowl off fan watching the jet wash finally clean the radiator fins all the way through the core!

wouldnt explain the mud in the expansion tank though, seems strange it could have got in with the system being pressurised, normally it would just blow the coolent out!
 
Right then, my overheating problem is this.
Mine overheats at high revs, such as motorways and long hills.
But also my heater has stopped blowing hot, my bro in law said to clean the matrix, but after a few googles and that seems to be a dash out job.

Any significance between the heater packing up and the overheating.:confused:
 
symun said:
Right then, my overheating problem is this.
Mine overheats at high revs, such as motorways and long hills.
But also my heater has stopped blowing hot, my bro in law said to clean the matrix, but after a few googles and that seems to be a dash out job.

Any significance between the heater packing up and the overheating.:confused:
Click to expand...

If there is an air lock then normaly the heater stops working first and then eventually the engine overheats.

What model do you have, this thread is running overtime and I just cannot keep up?

regards

Dave
 
1997 2.5 tdi xs. I have only had it a week, but the cost of taking it back to the dealer for what may be a simple'ish problem doesnt seem worth it.
 
symun said:
1997 2.5 tdi xs. I have only had it a week, but the cost of taking it back to the dealer for what may be a simple'ish problem doesnt seem worth it.
Click to expand...

Get onto it now then as depending on the dealer when you return a few weeks later and start warranty claims ect they expect you to start paying towards the cost with 'it's fair wear and tear' ect.

Notify the dealer in writing if need be and start the process, especialy if you are not good with the spanners.

A simple overheating problem as you should have gathered by now if you have been following this thread can come out to a lot of money if left long enough.

regards

Dave
 
thanks for the tips Dave..
now I just have to feel brave enough to take the rad out, not looking forward to take the fan out as i've read some horrific stories.. lol

suppose I can always use the C spanner I use on the bikes suspension as it seems similar to the spanner for the fan...

arghh... not looking forward to it!
 
TBH with the right tools it is a 15 minute job getting the rad out. The spanner for the fan is constructed thin enough to fit between the water pump pulley and the viscous coupling IIRC it is something like 32 or 33 mm but don't quote me, many mechanics just put a long screwdriver against the nut shoulder and give it a tap to undo it. The small nuts on the pulley do not need to be disturbed. Also remember the thread is lefthanded, so looking at the engine from the front put the spanner on the large nut and give it a sharp whack to right (clockwise).

Once it has loosened it should undo easily by just rotating the fan
Then get the top hose and the hose from the intercooler to inlet manifold off, then you have a couple of small nuts along the top of the plastic cowl undo those and lift the cowling out, then the couple of nuts and bolts at the sides of the rad, remove bottom hose and lif out rad.

As you can see the design is such that there is no groveling around under the car trying to undo anything it is all done from the top.

When you lift out the rad look for the two small rubber ring insulators that the rad sits on and make sure they are there when you put it all back together.

regards

Dave
 
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