Oil Overfill

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Rogan said:
I've done most of that in my blundering around. Ripped the dizzy apart, rewired it all etc, did the points and gaps, checked the tappets. I think I have the timing off at the mo - tis 6deg BTDC and now I find it should be TDC on my engine. :s

Maybe when I get dizzy seated properly, the timing right, and retune it will be better. :eek:

Thanks for the info. :)
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Doubt the ignition is tdc, set it at that and its possible it can run backwards.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
explain that one to me - how can it run backwards on a 4 stroke engine if timing is set to tdc?
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Wish I hadn't said that now, and I cant talk my way out of it, I remembered a bike that did it after a back fire and It wouldnt stop, I think I whacked it in gear and it went backwards, but it was so long ago, and another where it ran quite happily but with one forward gear and the rest backwards, but again it might have been a dumper truck.

Probably a 2 stroke and a diesel, ok you got me I'm a divy.

Anyway you get back to work, fokin playin with pooters during working time.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
:your_wrong:

oh - yu did ;).
Click to expand...

They say you should be careful what you write coz you cant retract it, if you say it you can, "thats not what I meant etc", however I called the wife a fat bastid once and couldnt get out of it.

I dont think I will forget it either, I remember the what did you call me bit, then it was like parachooting into a tree, then the what the fook happened there, fook I'm alive.
 
Righto, finally set the timing, only took me five attempts... Took it for a run, it's a touch retarded at TDC - no pinking in any gear, but couldn't get past 50 (although the speedo kept trying to jump to 60 on principle). Tuned idle after it had warmed up; needed a lot more than 1 1/2 turns out on the mixture screw. It's set to about 2 1/2- 3 ATM and is running very smoothly.

Had a look in the carb, it's not flooding at idle, can't even see any fuel in there really. Gets a good scoosh of fuel when I hit the throttle, but only really enough to coat the butterfly.

I'll start advancing the timing tomorrow and see what happens.

Thanks again.

Oh, and I found out the problem with the dizzy. It only goes in one way and I had it in the wrong way round. The fact it ran when subjected to such harsh mistreatment is impressive. :doh:
 
Well I advanced it until it started pinking, then backed it off. Max speed is now 50MPH or thereabouts, it will creep above 50 but starts making some nasty noises, could be the bodywork trying to shake itself off I suppose. Before resetting the timing it was more like 60MPH (with a bit of pinking in 4th). Oh well. :(
 
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Rogan said:
Well I advanced it until it started pinking, then backed it off. Max speed is now 50MPH or thereabouts, it will creep above 50 but starts making some nasty noises, could be the bodywork trying to shake itself off I suppose. Before resetting the timing it was more like 60MPH (with a bit of pinking in 4th). Oh well. :(
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Does it just run out off steam or is it missfiring, I guess we have avoided this, but is the engine healthy, valve clearances ok, worth a compression check perhaps? Tuners should have done that tho.

Points ok and set fine, new condensor, no cracks in cap and the carbon brush in the cap ok, the little contacts in the cap ok not burnt and corroded to fook, and same with the rotor and a nice fit on the dizzy, plugs ok and most important the leads and coil, make sure all the connections in the cap and coil are clean. The tuners should have checked all your voltages KV's etc, no print out ? Coils aint expensive tho.

If you are having to advance the timing to get more power, might be fooked engine.
 
It keeps accelerating but it develops a nasty sound. I guess that could be a missfire, but it's quite violent. Nothing like the little puffy missfires it does at idle. I've heard it twice and backed off pretty quickly, I didn't really have a good listen. It was a kind of rapping, popping banging noise. Much less regular than the engine RPM.

The Dizzy cap has seen better days. It's not corroded, but it's a bit pitted. It does probably need to be replaced, no cracks though. Points are bang on, checked them three times now, set to 0.14. New points and rotor fitted when I took the dizzy apart. Carbon brush is fine. Overall the cap could probably do with being replaced but I don't think it's terminal. I'll change it when I'm feeling a bit more flush.

It did hit 60MPH before, without pinking at that speed. It did pink at full pedal in third and half pedal in 4th, but not when it had reached full cruising speed. Admittedly you can't really hear much of anything apart from the gearbox at 60MPH, but it seemed fine.

The more I think about it the more I think it just needs the advance springs replaced. The car's 30 years old, and the dizzy looks every bit that age. I bet it still has the springs it was fitted with in 1980. They don't seem spendy to replace so I'll have a shot at that next. Maybe it'll let me advance it a touch more without pinking in high gear.

I don't think the garage did much to it really. They haven't sent me an invoice yet. I think they just gave it to the trainees so they could have a play with it. :rolleyes:
 
Rogan said:
It keeps accelerating but it develops a nasty sound. I guess that could be a missfire, but it's quite violent. Nothing like the little puffy missfires it does at idle. I've heard it twice and backed off pretty quickly, I didn't really have a good listen. It was a kind of rapping, popping banging noise. Much less regular than the engine RPM.

The Dizzy cap has seen better days. It's not corroded, but it's a bit pitted. It does probably need to be replaced, no cracks though. Points are bang on, checked them three times now, set to 0.14. New points and rotor fitted when I took the dizzy apart. Carbon brush is fine. Overall the cap could probably do with being replaced but I don't think it's terminal. I'll change it when I'm feeling a bit more flush.

It did hit 60MPH before, without pinking at that speed. It did pink at full pedal in third and half pedal in 4th, but not when it had reached full cruising speed. Admittedly you can't really hear much of anything apart from the gearbox at 60MPH, but it seemed fine.

The more I think about it the more I think it just needs the advance springs replaced. The car's 30 years old, and the dizzy looks every bit that age. I bet it still has the springs it was fitted with in 1980. They don't seem spendy to replace so I'll have a shot at that next. Maybe it'll let me advance it a touch more without pinking in high gear.

I don't think the garage did much to it really. They haven't sent me an invoice yet. I think they just gave it to the trainees so they could have a play with it. :rolleyes:
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You never mentioned the condensor? these can cause a bit of bother.

In relation to the springs, I would have thought at those revs that the weights would be at max advance anyway, we used to do that test and compare it with the data, probably at 50mph at least, however charliey is your man for that.
 
I joined this evening and read about the oil overfill. This used to happen everytime to me. However, I used to have a canal boat with the engine so low in its bay it was hopeless doing an oil change. So, from the marine shop I bought a sucker. (best way to describe it) the tube drops down the dipstick pipe and is drawn upwards and out of the other end into a container to catch it in. Dead easy
 
Ah thanks, that's something new too look into. I haven't checked the condenser, that's the small capacitor in the distributor isn't it? Is there a simple way to test if it's still good? I don't have a multimeter, etc. It does give quite a strong spark across the points. I shall get to Googling about it now.

When it does pink it seems related to how much pedal I'm giving it and the speed, which I guess would be low revs and high load? Say the car's travelling 30MPH in 4th and I go past half pedal then it pinks.

At 50MPH if I floor it it doesn't. Well that's how it was anyway. I can only assume it's still the same, but I haven't tried to get it up to speed after I've heard pinking since I've been fiddling. Perhaps I should test to see if it still performs the same when it's advanced a touch too far. It's quite easy to avoid the throttle ranges that it pinks at.

Someone mentioned that the problem could be something more simple, like sticking weights. I haven't stripped it down to that level, but it was sticking slightly now that I come to think of it. Perhaps the most sensible course of action would be to strip it down, clean it reoil and see if it's going to play ball.

So that's tomorrows job I think.

haha, just checked the price of a new condenser for that dizzy. Someone's making money. £30 for a new cap, and £25 for a capacitor. I saw a whole unit with low use go through on fleabay for less than either of those. Actually there's a Lucas office in Glasgow, I wonder if such things can be bought direct from there.

Lancelot said:
I joined this evening and read about the oil overfill. This used to happen everytime to me. However, I used to have a canal boat with the engine so low in its bay it was hopeless doing an oil change. So, from the marine shop I bought a sucker. (best way to describe it) the tube drops down the dipstick pipe and is drawn upwards and out of the other end into a container to catch it in. Dead easy
Click to expand...

That's a good idea. I actually had one in my hand when I was last in Halfrauds, but I was feeling too cheap to part with the £1.99 or whatever it was. :'/
 
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Rogan said:
Ah thanks, that's something new too look into. I haven't checked the condenser, that's the small capacitor in the distributor isn't it? Is there a simple way to test if it's still good? I don't have a multimeter, etc. It does give quite a strong spark across the points. I shall get to Googling about it now.

When it does pink it seems related to how much pedal I'm giving it and the speed, which I guess would be low revs and high load? Say the car's travelling 30MPH in 4th and I go past half pedal then it pinks.

At 50MPH if I floor it it doesn't. Well that's how it was anyway. I can only assume it's still the same, but I haven't tried to get it up to speed after I've heard pinking since I've been fiddling. Perhaps I should test to see if it still performs the same when it's advanced a touch too far. It's quite easy to avoid the throttle ranges that it pinks at.

Someone mentioned that the problem could be something more simple, like sticking weights. I haven't stripped it down to that level, but it was sticking slightly now that I come to think of it. Perhaps the most sensible course of action would be to strip it down, clean it reoil and see if it's going to play ball.

So that's tomorrows job I think.

haha, just checked the price of a new condenser for that dizzy. Someone's making money. £30 for a new cap, and £25 for a capacitor. I saw a whole unit with low use go through on fleabay for less than either of those. Actually there's a Lucas office in Glasgow, I wonder if such things can be bought direct from there.



That's a good idea. I actually had one in my hand when I was last in Halfrauds, but I was feeling too cheap to part with the £1.99 or whatever it was. :'/
Click to expand...

The condenser costs fokal and I always change them with the points.
 
This really stinks of a messed up dizzy to me. I wouldn't bother to mess with your timing, fuel, or coil until you make sure the dizzy is still good, new points and condenser would be a great thing to do.
 
Cheers guys, that's the next job then.

Bought one, as soon as you realise you don't need the part from the 24V manual it starts to get a lot cheaper.
 
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david451 said:
You never mentioned the condensor? these can cause a bit of bother.

In relation to the springs, I would have thought at those revs that the weights would be at max advance anyway, we used to do that test and compare it with the data, probably at 50mph at least, however charliey is your man for that.
Click to expand...

The condenser is critical to the spark quality.
it does two main things:
1. it reduces arcing across the points when the engine is running, so the points don't burn out every 100 miles, and
2. every time the points OPEN it "backfires" a hefty slug of leccy into the low tension side of the coil , which transforms that into about 25,000 volts to make a bloody big spark.

The condenser is simply two strips of aluminium foil rolled together and stuffed into the little can, but with thin insulation goo between the rolled-up strips. It acts like a miniature battery and can absorb and release its little charge of leccy almost instantaneously. They can go wrong, and they are nearly impossible to test unless they have gone short circuit, which isn't often. If in doubt, throw it out! They don't cost much anyway.

You can do a rough check on the dizzy like this.

Take off the cap and lift off the rotor. The shaft the rotor sits on is hollow. It SHOULD have a blob of oily felt inside it. Poke that out but keep it. You should now see a slotted screwhead in there. That screw is tight into the main distributor drive shaft BUT THE SHAFT THE ROTOR ARM AND CAM SITS ON IS NOT!

You should be able to turn the upper shaft (the bit the rotor fits) and clearly see that when it turns it can turn a lot more than the slotted screw under it. To prove the point you can hold the slotted screw still with a screwdriver if you like. Once you see it works, drop 3 or 4 drops of engine oil onto the head of the slotted screw, fit the felt plug, put 3 or 4 drops of oil on that too, and away you go.

If you feel brave take it to bits, BUT be very careful with the bobweight SPRINGS one of which is heftier than the other and has deliberately designed loose ends so that at LOW revs only the little spring resists centrifuge, but when it gets faster the bigger spring starts to take effect too. Very simple, and very clever.

Great plan is to get another dizzy and practice taking it to bits.

CharlesY
 
Rogan said:
Cheers guys, that's the next job then.

Bought one, as soon as you realise you don't need the part from the 24V manual it starts to get a lot cheaper.
Click to expand...

Make sure you get a TWELVE VOLT condenser if it's a 12 volt car!

CharlesY
 
CharlesY said:
The condenser is critical to the spark quality.
it does two main things:
1. it reduces arcing across the points when the engine is running, so the points don't burn out every 100 miles, and
2. every time the points OPEN it "backfires" a hefty slug of leccy into the low tension side of the coil , which transforms that into about 25,000 volts to make a bloody big spark.

The condenser is simply two strips of aluminium foil rolled together and stuffed into the little can, but with thin insulation goo between the rolled-up strips. It acts like a miniature battery and can absorb and release its little charge of leccy almost instantaneously. They can go wrong, and they are nearly impossible to test unless they have gone short circuit, which isn't often. If in doubt, throw it out! They don't cost much anyway.

You can do a rough check on the dizzy like this.

Take off the cap and lift off the rotor. The shaft the rotor sits on is hollow. It SHOULD have a blob of oily felt inside it. Poke that out but keep it. You should now see a slotted screwhead in there. That screw is tight into the main distributor drive shaft BUT THE SHAFT THE ROTOR ARM AND CAM SITS ON IS NOT!

You should be able to turn the upper shaft (the bit the rotor fits) and clearly see that when it turns it can turn a lot more than the slotted screw under it. To prove the point you can hold the slotted screw still with a screwdriver if you like. Once you see it works, drop 3 or 4 drops of engine oil onto the head of the slotted screw, fit the felt plug, put 3 or 4 drops of oil on that too, and away you go.

If you feel brave take it to bits, BUT be very careful with the bobweight SPRINGS one of which is heftier than the other and has deliberately designed loose ends so that at LOW revs only the little spring resists centrifuge, but when it gets faster the bigger spring starts to take effect too. Very simple, and very clever.

Great plan is to get another dizzy and practice taking it to bits.

CharlesY
Click to expand...


Ah, well it does turn as you say, but it has a tendency to stick. There's quite a lot of grit floating about in there, I've oiled it with sewing machine oil but it hasn't freed it up much.

If I do take it to bits I'll take plenty of photos of the assembly to give myself a decent chance of rebuilding it as it was.

It really does sound like the condenser's starting to fail now that everyone's explained what it's doing, and what starts to happen when it goes wrong. Much more likely than the springs I'll wager. I should have replaced it when I did the points, but I simply didn't know.

Thanks again.

CharlesY said:
Make sure you get a TWELVE VOLT condenser if it's a 12 volt car!

CharlesY
Click to expand...

Well it's 24V outside the ignition system and I think 10V at the coil. I thought you needed a specific part from the part manual, but:

fv1620 said:
There is nothing special about a 24v condenser. Any 0.2 mfd distributor condenser that fits in can be used. These have a working voltage in the order of 300v, irrespective of the voltage used to generate the magnetic field in the coil.

Because FFR condensers are so highly valued they often seem to be quite old stock & stand a chance of having deteriorated to some degree. All condensers of this type of construction will go that way with time even if they are never used.
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So I just got a standard one from a 12V Rover that looked like new stock.
 
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Time to take the plunge .... strip and clean .....
Sewing machine oil is too thin for the job. Use engine oil.
CharlesY
 
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