Taffy
Active Member
- Posts
- 470
- Location
- Wrexham North Wales
oh another thing friend said I could try remove the fuel filter assembling and put an peoget 405 fuel filter as it is heated one what u think guys?
oi pikey (or other veg oil user's)
- Thread starter spudy
- Start date
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marktinkerman
Member
- Posts
- 28
- Location
- barmoyh gwynedd
pipes that don't like vegoil (at least on my landy) were the black pipes about 1/2 inch od with sort of material /cloth look on outside. I think they'r rubber based and the veg oil makes m go soft. best bet is to carry some "proper" fuel pipe (called compressor pipe or similar these days). SEE vegetableoildiesel.co.uk for a forum with a good search engine for info on all sorts of things like is my injector pump ok for vegoil etc.
arminius6661
New Member
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- 57
- Location
- Swindon/Southampton
I have had the same advice from a couple I met in France that they replaced all pipes that were non-metallic with nylon armoured pressure hose and since then no worries.
On the point of the heated filter, I had thought of this a while ago and am still considering doing it, just a case of sorting out a safe and appropriate power/wiring circuit.
Andreas
On the point of the heated filter, I had thought of this a while ago and am still considering doing it, just a case of sorting out a safe and appropriate power/wiring circuit.
Andreas
marktinkerman
Member
- Posts
- 28
- Location
- barmoyh gwynedd
The following is copied of my website samssauna.com and hopefully edited to make sense here-----We've now run both vehicles for the whole season (may to september) and are well satisfied with how they;ve worked. initial teething problems were limited to some fuel pipe problems as we dicovered which flexible fuel pipes didnt like vegeteble oil. Unless you decide to change ALL flexible pipes at the outset we suggest carrying some pipe with you (clear plastic with woven reinforcing) so that as leaks develop there's no panic about changing them.
Suggested layout of system is
1. fuel tank for veg oil, it can be original tank or new tank.
2. fuel pump, using the mechanical pump already fitted to the engine for vegoil is best as then the elctric pump can be fitted to the diesel supply which makes clearing the veg oil out of the injector pump for cold starting easier.
3. Puegeot diesel filter with heater element on bottom,(connected to hot water supply to cab heater) £5 from scrap yard
4. Pollack valve for switch over of both feed and return pipes from veg to diesel , it also switches fuel sender units so the fuel guage registers the tank you're running on and switches the fuel pump(s) on and of . £60 from biotuning or a bit cheaper from ebay. Comes with wiring / plumbing diagram
4. conection to heat exchanger for both veg and diesel fuel
5. heat exchanger . see my design at samssauna.com. cost minimal or free if you have 8 and 22mm copper pipe and bits in your scrap pile. NOTE for my system you also need a 15mm stop tap to turn of the heat exchanger if veg oil is not available (ie. on long motoway journeys where time is of importance)
6. short connection from heat exchanger to injector pump
7. also suggest gps navigator with poi (points of interest) download for supermakets to tell u where the nearest veg oil is available.
Weve discoverd that our engine 3.5 mazda tdi in landy and merc 2.4 (OM616) both run quieter because of the slower burn time of veg oil and that we have a very slight power loss due to same, it is very slight. Could advance timing but like quiet engine.
. At present we are running as registered users after filling in an EX103 form ( which is mostly not applicable as it is designed for biodiesel producers) and have to tell HMRC how much we've used.
HAVE HAD A LETTER FROM CUSTOMS SAYING THEY DON'T WANT DUTY FROM ME IF I USE LESS THAN 2,500 LITERS A YEAR.
following is what I put up in May(ish) this year.
Hi I've just finished converting My Landy 110 with Mazda 3.5 tdi engine will update site with running info as available
PICTURES at bottom of page
conversion includes Landy under seat tank for svo (straight vegetable oil),Puegeot 505 preheated diesel filter, Pollak 6 port valve, heat exchanger constructed from 8mm copper pipe in 22mm copper pipe. ( NO svo pump as been told may not be necessary?)
Peugeot filter modified by having the thermostat removed by grinding of the flange and drilling out as large as possible and the hot water outlet drilled out slightly larger than original.
Landy tank mounted on wooden spacers and crossmember as we didn't have original mountings The feed and return from the second tank is taken forward up to the mounting box for the brake master cylinder( space for svo pump on bulkhead on o/s of box if nescesary ) in which I drilled 3 holes on the near side top flange to allow me to bolt on a piece of angle iron as a mounting bracket for a peugeot 505 pre heated diesel filter (£5 from scrappy) on the forward mounting bolt for this I added a strip of alluminium about 1 by 6 x 3/16 inch extending across front/top of filter which allowed me to mount the pollak valve so that the inlet for svo lined up with the outlet from the filter, the outletpipe from the valve continues across the back of the engine tied on to the hot water supply to the filter (3/4 id) and both lagged with 22mm pipe insulation.
At the n/s of the engine these pipes are connected to a heat exchanger running forward below engine air inlet made from 22mm copper pipe with 90deg bends and short pieces of 22mm at each end the forward one linning up with the heater outlet from the engine the rear one pointing at and connected to the svo filter. The 90 deg bends I drilled on the outside radius with a 7mm drill I then used the same drill shaft to bend the holes until they lined up with the long 22mm pipe. then I used a pair of narrow nosed pliers as a mandrel (by pushing the closed pliers into the drill hole and rotating them)until the hole had opened up enough to just accept a piece of 8mm copper pipe which extended about 3/8 inch further at each end than the 90deg elbows this was then soldered in, onto these I soldered a 90 deg 8mm elbows (1 at rear 2 at front ) and short piece of pipe the rear one is parallel to the 22mm bend the front one at about 45deg to rear offside to allow for easy connection to the svo filter and injector pump (ip) inlet respectiveley. The whole lagged in pipe isulation and taped ( cutting holes in pipe insulation done with sharpened 22mm pipe and when soldering clean pipe and fittings with wire wool and use plenty of flux. I also found it helpful to have some thin flux cored solder ).
The heater outlet from engine connects to 22mm T piece with a 15mm reducer fitted to supply hot water to cab heater on T off (pipe running behind injector pipes) and straight through T to front of heat exchanger. the hot water from heat exhanger exits to lagged preheater pipe across back of engine and through svo filter into house type 15mm stop cock then into 15 mm T piece and returns to engine,. the other connection on the 15mm T is also fitted to a stop tap and connects to the outlet from the cab heater. The stop taps allow for turnoing of/on heat exchanger and cab heater.
I decided to fit the pollak valve before the heat exchanger as I had seen some reports of valve failure when hot on biofuel chat forums. This meant I needed to fit stop tap to turn of hot water supply through heat exchanger so that if svo is unavailable the diesel would not be preheated and become to thin for ip and injectors. Also preheating diesel will also cause the ip to warm up faster enabling earlier switch overto svo hopefully.
Pollak switch mounted in cab wired as in supplied wiring diagram. Svo fuel tank sender unit wired one lead to earth. One through new warning light for low fuel to live feed on pollak switch (use meter to find out which lead is which before fitting fuel tank!). Third to pollak valve connection block.
Bought voltmeter with temperature sender. Fuel through heat exchanger running about 7 to10deg C colder than water WITHOUT looping fuel return from pump
Suggested layout of system is
1. fuel tank for veg oil, it can be original tank or new tank.
2. fuel pump, using the mechanical pump already fitted to the engine for vegoil is best as then the elctric pump can be fitted to the diesel supply which makes clearing the veg oil out of the injector pump for cold starting easier.
3. Puegeot diesel filter with heater element on bottom,(connected to hot water supply to cab heater) £5 from scrap yard
4. Pollack valve for switch over of both feed and return pipes from veg to diesel , it also switches fuel sender units so the fuel guage registers the tank you're running on and switches the fuel pump(s) on and of . £60 from biotuning or a bit cheaper from ebay. Comes with wiring / plumbing diagram
4. conection to heat exchanger for both veg and diesel fuel
5. heat exchanger . see my design at samssauna.com. cost minimal or free if you have 8 and 22mm copper pipe and bits in your scrap pile. NOTE for my system you also need a 15mm stop tap to turn of the heat exchanger if veg oil is not available (ie. on long motoway journeys where time is of importance)
6. short connection from heat exchanger to injector pump
7. also suggest gps navigator with poi (points of interest) download for supermakets to tell u where the nearest veg oil is available.
Weve discoverd that our engine 3.5 mazda tdi in landy and merc 2.4 (OM616) both run quieter because of the slower burn time of veg oil and that we have a very slight power loss due to same, it is very slight. Could advance timing but like quiet engine.
. At present we are running as registered users after filling in an EX103 form ( which is mostly not applicable as it is designed for biodiesel producers) and have to tell HMRC how much we've used.
HAVE HAD A LETTER FROM CUSTOMS SAYING THEY DON'T WANT DUTY FROM ME IF I USE LESS THAN 2,500 LITERS A YEAR.
following is what I put up in May(ish) this year.
Hi I've just finished converting My Landy 110 with Mazda 3.5 tdi engine will update site with running info as available
PICTURES at bottom of page
conversion includes Landy under seat tank for svo (straight vegetable oil),Puegeot 505 preheated diesel filter, Pollak 6 port valve, heat exchanger constructed from 8mm copper pipe in 22mm copper pipe. ( NO svo pump as been told may not be necessary?)
Peugeot filter modified by having the thermostat removed by grinding of the flange and drilling out as large as possible and the hot water outlet drilled out slightly larger than original.
Landy tank mounted on wooden spacers and crossmember as we didn't have original mountings The feed and return from the second tank is taken forward up to the mounting box for the brake master cylinder( space for svo pump on bulkhead on o/s of box if nescesary ) in which I drilled 3 holes on the near side top flange to allow me to bolt on a piece of angle iron as a mounting bracket for a peugeot 505 pre heated diesel filter (£5 from scrappy) on the forward mounting bolt for this I added a strip of alluminium about 1 by 6 x 3/16 inch extending across front/top of filter which allowed me to mount the pollak valve so that the inlet for svo lined up with the outlet from the filter, the outletpipe from the valve continues across the back of the engine tied on to the hot water supply to the filter (3/4 id) and both lagged with 22mm pipe insulation.
At the n/s of the engine these pipes are connected to a heat exchanger running forward below engine air inlet made from 22mm copper pipe with 90deg bends and short pieces of 22mm at each end the forward one linning up with the heater outlet from the engine the rear one pointing at and connected to the svo filter. The 90 deg bends I drilled on the outside radius with a 7mm drill I then used the same drill shaft to bend the holes until they lined up with the long 22mm pipe. then I used a pair of narrow nosed pliers as a mandrel (by pushing the closed pliers into the drill hole and rotating them)until the hole had opened up enough to just accept a piece of 8mm copper pipe which extended about 3/8 inch further at each end than the 90deg elbows this was then soldered in, onto these I soldered a 90 deg 8mm elbows (1 at rear 2 at front ) and short piece of pipe the rear one is parallel to the 22mm bend the front one at about 45deg to rear offside to allow for easy connection to the svo filter and injector pump (ip) inlet respectiveley. The whole lagged in pipe isulation and taped ( cutting holes in pipe insulation done with sharpened 22mm pipe and when soldering clean pipe and fittings with wire wool and use plenty of flux. I also found it helpful to have some thin flux cored solder ).
The heater outlet from engine connects to 22mm T piece with a 15mm reducer fitted to supply hot water to cab heater on T off (pipe running behind injector pipes) and straight through T to front of heat exchanger. the hot water from heat exhanger exits to lagged preheater pipe across back of engine and through svo filter into house type 15mm stop cock then into 15 mm T piece and returns to engine,. the other connection on the 15mm T is also fitted to a stop tap and connects to the outlet from the cab heater. The stop taps allow for turnoing of/on heat exchanger and cab heater.
I decided to fit the pollak valve before the heat exchanger as I had seen some reports of valve failure when hot on biofuel chat forums. This meant I needed to fit stop tap to turn of hot water supply through heat exchanger so that if svo is unavailable the diesel would not be preheated and become to thin for ip and injectors. Also preheating diesel will also cause the ip to warm up faster enabling earlier switch overto svo hopefully.
Pollak switch mounted in cab wired as in supplied wiring diagram. Svo fuel tank sender unit wired one lead to earth. One through new warning light for low fuel to live feed on pollak switch (use meter to find out which lead is which before fitting fuel tank!). Third to pollak valve connection block.
Bought voltmeter with temperature sender. Fuel through heat exchanger running about 7 to10deg C colder than water WITHOUT looping fuel return from pump
that's quite an old fashioned method - but it's exactly what i did before i had seen the light
it's overly complex and introduces a single point of failure into a otherwise reliable system i.e. the pollack valve (of which there are many fakes around)
the heat exchange from coolant to veg oil is problematical - I’ve experimented with most of the commercially available exchangers (many of which are modified combi boiler exchangers) - the most effective ones (such as the small one from biotuning) require a large amount of external insulation as the heat lost from it (intot he engine compartment) and the connecting pipe work is massive - this results in minimal heat output from the cabin heater - most of the wound copper pipe types struggle to impart any heat gain at all to the vegoil.
as the engine runs fairly cool anyway it often takes 10-20 miles of running before enough heat is available to be usefully imparted to the veg oil via the exchanger - but by this time the IP will be warm enough to be able to provide a useful temp gain for the fuel as it flows through it thus negating the need for an additional exchanger
now that the price of vegoil has risen the cost/benefits of doing the twin tank mod is questionable (and I’m not just basing this comment on the cost of the components - it would take a couple of days to install)
now that I have seen the light I have simply replaced the standard fuel filter with a Davco (or Frybrid) heated fuel filter - this is both coolant and electrically heated (the electric assist is manually operated and is useful for a quick bust of heat in sub zero conditions) - the coolant pipe work to the filter is lagged with standard pipe insulation which is then wrapped in sticky aluminium tape – it’s also helpful to lag the fuel and return pipes from the IP - if the outside temps fall to around zero a litre of petrol per tank is helpful to thin the oil, even without the added petrol on very cold mornings the only ill effects are a slightly uneven tick over for a couple of minutes until the engine has started to warm.
I’m in the process of fitting a in tank electric heater that is thermostatically controlled so that it will ensure that no thickening of the fuel will occur at sub zero temps.
It’s important to ensure that your glow plugs are in good order, especially if you have an older engine that may be low on compression - mine aren’t connected but it still fires instantly even when the air temp is below zero
For me this has proven to be highly reliable and is much less hassle to install than the more traditional twin tank method
it's overly complex and introduces a single point of failure into a otherwise reliable system i.e. the pollack valve (of which there are many fakes around)
the heat exchange from coolant to veg oil is problematical - I’ve experimented with most of the commercially available exchangers (many of which are modified combi boiler exchangers) - the most effective ones (such as the small one from biotuning) require a large amount of external insulation as the heat lost from it (intot he engine compartment) and the connecting pipe work is massive - this results in minimal heat output from the cabin heater - most of the wound copper pipe types struggle to impart any heat gain at all to the vegoil.
as the engine runs fairly cool anyway it often takes 10-20 miles of running before enough heat is available to be usefully imparted to the veg oil via the exchanger - but by this time the IP will be warm enough to be able to provide a useful temp gain for the fuel as it flows through it thus negating the need for an additional exchanger
now that the price of vegoil has risen the cost/benefits of doing the twin tank mod is questionable (and I’m not just basing this comment on the cost of the components - it would take a couple of days to install)
now that I have seen the light I have simply replaced the standard fuel filter with a Davco (or Frybrid) heated fuel filter - this is both coolant and electrically heated (the electric assist is manually operated and is useful for a quick bust of heat in sub zero conditions) - the coolant pipe work to the filter is lagged with standard pipe insulation which is then wrapped in sticky aluminium tape – it’s also helpful to lag the fuel and return pipes from the IP - if the outside temps fall to around zero a litre of petrol per tank is helpful to thin the oil, even without the added petrol on very cold mornings the only ill effects are a slightly uneven tick over for a couple of minutes until the engine has started to warm.
I’m in the process of fitting a in tank electric heater that is thermostatically controlled so that it will ensure that no thickening of the fuel will occur at sub zero temps.
It’s important to ensure that your glow plugs are in good order, especially if you have an older engine that may be low on compression - mine aren’t connected but it still fires instantly even when the air temp is below zero
For me this has proven to be highly reliable and is much less hassle to install than the more traditional twin tank method
hughesy
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 4,200
- Location
- Isle of Anglesey
Or you could just forget all that hassle and just pour it into the tank
Or you could just forget all that hassle and just pour it into the tank
cold oil hitting yer IP is a good method of knackering it
hughesy
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 4,200
- Location
- Isle of Anglesey
Seems to work ok in mine Not running neat veg oil now due to the cold weather sticking some diesel in with it but no problems in the warmer months with no modifications.
Not running neat veg oil now due to the cold weather sticking some diesel in with it but no problems in the warmer months with no modifications.boydy1989
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 3,063
- Location
- Northants/Oxfordshire/Warwickshire
Do the older Lucas IP's suffer with Veg Oil, in any mix? I have also been informed that Veg Oil causes glazing of injectors and other nasties. Anyone else heard of this?
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
- Posts
- 47,185
- Location
- in Baron Wet Bum's Slave pit..
The older IP's don't like cold veg oil. All the horror stories you've heard are either ****e or vegoil kit sellers trying scare tactics to drum up sales
boydy1989
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 3,063
- Location
- Northants/Oxfordshire/Warwickshire
Would mixing, e.g. 50/50 solve the IP issues? Orshould i use more DERV less oil, or just avoid it and save for a Tdi? (and the insurance increase)
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
- Posts
- 47,185
- Location
- in Baron Wet Bum's Slave pit..
I've heard a few peeps say that. but to be on the safe side I'd run it 50/50 or preheat it.
Taffy
Active Member
- Posts
- 470
- Location
- Wrexham North Wales
hi following extensive research either do 50/50 mix and chnage fuel filters etc for first few hundred miles and then every six months. or get vow2 heater and go 20% deisel and 80 veggie and bob is your uncle! vow2e+ 84 quids all worries etc disappears.
yer research can't have been take extensive or you'd have notice that the temp of the oil going into that so called heater is very close to the temp of the oil coming out - meaning it's not very effective
you just can't beat a high density proper heat exchanger, i'm not going to advertise it here but it's about £50 and far more effective (and reliable) than those home built vow things
Taffy
Active Member
- Posts
- 470
- Location
- Wrexham North Wales
wow sound good. can u let me in secret? where from? yeah I noticed oil temps were almost same but it helps but if u say this device is better then I am all for it
Taffy
Active Member
- Posts
- 470
- Location
- Wrexham North Wales
Thanks Sean. having a look now mate. owe u a pint should I ever meet you. most likely will be at billings landy show.
Taffy
Active Member
- Posts
- 470
- Location
- Wrexham North Wales
erm with this device oil will be cold going into engine?? as water warm up okay u running yer car wth this on oil what mix percent sean??
boydy1989
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 3,063
- Location
- Northants/Oxfordshire/Warwickshire
yeah i agree, the glow plug thing at least heats it up from cold, but with a cold engine I am very dubious that it will make enough of a difference. This whole veg oil thing sounds very dubious; there is so much contradicting advice offered by everyone that i may just stick to diesel, even though it is expensive i can't afford a conversion kit, and i can't afford a new IP if it fails.
