P38A Oh dear....all quiet!

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Well bugger me sideways with a blunt pitchfork.....that is a serious oddity.....

The MAP tells the ECU what the manifold pressure is and to alter fueling to compensate for the larger charge of air. This I believe is controlled within the FIP by the quantity servo.

With MAP unplugged the ECU will default to a standard fuel map and the QS doesnt do much until engine speed change is demanded then it will begin adjusting fuel compared to accelrator ppositiin, engine load and speed.

With the MAP plugged in, the ECU will be contnually modulating the QS in response to manifold pressure and the other above parameters.

If the QS is faulty or loose inside the pump as it tries to modulate it could vibrate...or the solenoid could be bad and the vibration is the result.....

I think and could be as wide of the mark as my backside would be by being buggered with a pitchfork sideways!
 
Saint.V8 said:
Well bugger me sideways with a blunt pitchfork.....that is a serious oddity.....

The MAP tells the ECU what the manifold pressure is and to alter fueling to compensate for the larger charge of air. This I believe is controlled within the FIP by the quantity servo.

With MAP unplugged the ECU will default to a standard fuel map and the QS doesnt do much until engine speed change is demanded then it will begin adjusting fuel compared to accelrator ppositiin, engine load and speed.

With the MAP plugged in, the ECU will be contnually modulating the QS in response to manifold pressure and the other above parameters.

If the QS is faulty or loose inside the pump as it tries to modulate it could vibrate...or the solenoid could be bad and the vibration is the result.....

I think and could be as wide of the mark as my backside would be by being buggered with a pitchfork sideways![/Q
OUCH !!
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Grrrrrr said:
You might need the Volvo yet!

Electronic stethoscope about £20 off the Bay. Might help track down exactly where the noise is coming from. I don't have MAF or EGR on mine so mine's a bit simpler. :)

How far away from @Datatek are you? he might have some diag / timing tools you could exchange for wine token or whatever the currency is over there!
Click to expand...

The MAF sensor is for EGR. EGR is disconnected so as long as the MAF is actually sound it can have no influence on the running of the engine whatsoever.
 
Ok then, a couple of things.
Does the fact it was tuned in the past or that I had to adjust the fip caps by ear have any affect over the standard functions or programs?:eek:
 
Mark Piercy said:
Ok then, a couple of things.
Does the fact it was tuned in the past or that I had to adjust the fip caps by ear have any affect over the standard functions or programs?:eek:
Click to expand...

Unless you moved that pump top I find it hard to say how you could have affected the quantity servo. It sits on a peg, I remember that. If it helps here are some pictures of the top of my pump taken apart.
 

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Thanks grrrrrrrrr.rrrr, I had done the cap seals previously.
When I had the caps back on, Id started the engine and moved the caps backwards just before the engine started misfiring and nipped them down just at that point. It's no real guide on whether that was the right point as I couldn't monitor it's fuel levels with software. Do you think it could just be in the wrong place by a fraction? It idles and runs nice apart from the jiggling..:(
 
Mark Piercy said:
Thanks grrrrrrrrr.rrrr, I had done the cap seals previously.
When I had the caps back on, Id started the engine and moved the caps backwards just before the engine started misfiring and nipped them down just at that point. It's no real guide on whether that was the right point as I couldn't monitor it's fuel levels with software. Do you think it could just be in the wrong place by a fraction? It idles and runs nice apart from the jiggling..:(
Click to expand...

Position of quantity sleeve on piston is critical. Top should be tapped fore and aft until a rock solid 750 RPM is obtained. At idle with the throttle pot at less than 9% the RPM is being directly controlled by the ECUs idle control circuit. The ECU uses signals direct from the CPS to adjust the quantity servo to maintain 750 RPM. The idle fuel basic level is set electronically when the pump is on the test rig for calibration after assembly. If a load is applied at idle the quantity servo is moved subject to reduced speed signal from CPS by the ECU to maintain 750 RPM. As a load is removed and the engine speed increases the ECU will move the quantity servo to reduce fuel and maintain it's preset idle speed of 750 RPM. Moving the pump centre section loses this initial fuel setting. So without test equipment the only way to get anywhere near back to correct is to set idle at a rock steady 750 RPM. This should be done with the engine up to temp and not when it is cold. I would tend to think with the way your car starts, that the basic idle fuel is set to high and the quantity servo is struggling to maintain idle RPM. Having constantly to reduce fuel at idle and that is the reason for the oscillation sound.
 
kapilamuni said:
Grrrr, I wish I had your courage. You installed that pump back & the car runs on it, now?
Click to expand...

@kapilamuni: I did. I had to tap the top about a bit to get it running right. It ran OK for a while (6 months? 12 months?) and then I started getting the stalling when hot issue. At that point I called it a day and replaced the FIP and the in-tank pump (as that was knackered).

@Mark. When I put the top back on it was a total PITA. The act of screwing it back down was enough to make it go out. In the end it was a case of one person with a hand on the key and one person tapping the top, tighten a bit and tap until it was (as Wammers says above) rock solid at 750 rpm at idle. IIRC it ran a bit erratically for 50 miles or so until it got used to what I'd done and then it sorted itself out. Maybe there was some air in there somewhere or maybe it has some sort of adaptive values that needed learning.
 
Wammers, very plausible analysis.
I guess diagnostic data is needed here to recalibrate the pump...
Grrrrrr, the only guide to the idle rpm is the revised counter but can't really go by that... Thanks again you lot for your help.
Last question... Well maybe not!
Does the hawkeye read the values needed to reset the fip to it's correct values please?;)
 
Mark Piercy said:
Wammers, very plausible analysis.
I guess diagnostic data is needed here to recalibrate the pump...
Grrrrrr, the only guide to the idle rpm is the revised counter but can't really go by that... Thanks again you lot for your help.
Last question... Well maybe not!
Does the hawkeye read the values needed to reset the fip to it's correct values please?;)
Click to expand...

On Nanocom the standard ECU setting for idle is a 128 value. That should give the 750 RPM plus or minus 50 RPM that the ECU is set at for idle control. Below that setting the engine will idle slower above it the engine will idle faster. Obviously the ECU MUST be at it's standard idle setting before the tapping produced 750 RPM is valid. You really, really do need a Nanocom.
 
Mark Piercy said:
Grrrrrr, the only guide to the idle rpm is the revised counter but can't really go by that.
Click to expand...

I used the rev counter. It "sounds" right when it is in the right place. It is so damn sensitive it seems to be right or massively wrong and not much in between.

By the way, I'd never have attempted the pump top on my own first time. I was with Dopey's mate, Max so he was the expert on hand answering all my questions.
 
Grrrrrr said:
I used the rev counter. It "sounds" right when it is in the right place. It is so damn sensitive it seems to be right or massively wrong and not much in between.

By the way, I'd never have attempted the pump top on my own first time. I was with Dopey's mate, Max so he was the expert on hand answering all my questions.
Click to expand...
What you mean is if its wrong its his fault
 
I'm going to have to wait, I priced up the nano suite, it was 517€ delivered.
A touch too much for the moment.
Christmas is coming or maybe my birthday:confused:. Thank you anyway;)
I looked at the lynx kit, home use edition but not sure...
 
Last edited:
Grrrrrr said:
@kapilamuni: I did. I had to tap the top about a bit to get it running right. It ran OK for a while (6 months? 12 months?) and then I started getting the stalling when hot issue. At that point I called it a day and replaced the FIP and the in-tank pump (as that was knackered). FFS don't encourage him Grrrrrr,:eek:

@Mark. When I put the top back on it was a total PITA. The act of screwing it back down was enough to make it go out. In the end it was a case of one person with a hand on the key and one person tapping the top, tighten a bit and tap until it was (as Wammers says above) rock solid at 750 rpm at idle. IIRC it ran a bit erratically for 50 miles or so until it got used to what I'd done and then it sorted itself out. Maybe there was some air in there somewhere or maybe it has some sort of adaptive values that needed learning.
Click to expand...
 
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