Normal or not?

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Sorry, had no time to 'play' today.
However, I've been reading threads about failing wheel bearings producing similar noises. So my next course of action would be to drop the rear prop and see if I get the same noises, if so I recon its the rear bearings. I've heard that they can feel normal but be totally buggered.
 
Just got my local chap to drop the prop for me. Well instantly it drives like its lost 10 stone in weight. So.. just going to do a full test drive and see if the vibration has gone.
 
A Quick update.. I now know everyone mean by 'driving along with the breaks on' having dropped the prop the car has been transformed from a lardy lump to something quite spritely. And the vibration has gone - completely.
So... my Land Rover gurus... what would you think is the root-cause? VCU? I must admit I've tried to turn the VCU but it is rock solid (I know you need a bit of ummph to turn them). IRD? or Rear Diff? I think I'll give Bell a call and see if they can diagnose the problem. I'm quite happy to pay, I just want it fixin' :)
 
Thanks for update. If it is o.k without prop then it suggests that if it is the diff it is at the pinion end. Could be IRD, but I understand that these usually 'fail' not get tight. As you say it is a new VCU then a faulty one is possible but guess back to Bell is best bet. Please keep us up to date. Solve this and you'll solve mine too !!! Bell can look at mine, but I'm near Reading in Berks. Similarly, just want it cured.
 
WilkoUK said:
A Quick update.. I now know everyone mean by 'driving along with the breaks on' having dropped the prop the car has been transformed from a lardy lump to something quite spritely. And the vibration has gone - completely.
So... my Land Rover gurus... what would you think is the root-cause? VCU? I must admit I've tried to turn the VCU but it is rock solid (I know you need a bit of ummph to turn them). IRD? or Rear Diff? I think I'll give a call and see if they can diagnose the problem. I'm quite happy to pay, I just want it fixin' :)
Click to expand...
Did you try to turn the vcu yourself, or did you put a weight on a bar and let gravity turn it? It's hard to judge how much force your putting on a vcu when turning it yourself.

A vcu will warm up when used during normal driving. You won't know the inner temp from measuring the outer temp as the flow of heat out of the vcu may be irregular. It also dissipates into the metal work. But it's a good enough test to do without tools. After a normal run on road the vcu temp should rise a bit. If not then it's either not slipping (because it's seized solid) or your prop shafts are turning at the same ratio hence your vcu isn't asked to slip, which is highly unlikely.

Your next step is to test the vcu yourself. That's the only way to know how your vcu performs during a stationary test. One wheel up test with a bar and weight will show you how your vcu performs. Compare this to the results of others in the results thread.
 
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Hippo said:
Did you try to turn the vcu yourself, or did you put a weight on a bar and let gravity turn it? It's hard to judge how much force your putting on a vcu when turning it yourself.

A vcu will warm up when used during normal driving. You won't know the inner temp from measuring the outer temp as the flow of heat out of the vcu may be irregular. It also dissipates into the metal work. But it's a good enough test to do without tools. After a normal run on road the vcu temp should rise a bit. If not then it's either not slipping (because it's seized solid) or your prop shafts are turning at the same ratio hence your vcu isn't asked to slip, which is highly unlikely.

Your next step is to test the vcu yourself. That's the only way to know how your vcu performs during a stationary test. One wheel up test with a bar and weight will show you how your vcu performs. Compare this to the results of others in the results thread.
Click to expand...

Well with a set of mole grips on one end and a fat screwdriver in the other end of the prop I can just about move it.. but it takes a lot of ummph to shift it. :) Would I say it was 'stiff', yes I would, but how stiff is it meant to be (Ooooherrrr Missus).
 
WilkoUK said:
Well with a set of mole grips on one end and a fat screwdriver in the other end of the prop I can just about move it.. but it takes a lot of ummph to shift it. :) Would I say it was 'stiff', yes I would, but how stiff is it meant to be (Ooooherrrr Missus).
Click to expand...
That's the problem. It should be about this much: (--------------)

When turning the 2 props by hand or using screw drivers through the uj's it's difficult to know how much pressure your putting on it. You need to perform the One Wheel Up Test. This uses a bar and weight on the 32mm driver shaft nut. Gravity pulls the weight and bar towards the ground and you time how long it takes to turn 45 degrees to the horizontal, as per my vid in my sig. If you use a datum like gravity then you can compare results.
 
A few things here to straighten out. Vcu should only ever get warm to the touch from the outside, if its any hotter then either the Vcu is too tight or tyres are mismatched in diameter. If a vcu is very cold after a good run then either its a duffer with no drive, there is no drive from IRD so only been turned by rear diff (so no slip) or front tyres are slightly smaller than fronts so vcu doesn't slip when driving in a straight line.
 
austen said:
A few things here to straighten out. Vcu should only ever get warm to the touch from the outside, if its any hotter then either the Vcu is too tight or tyres are mismatched in diameter. If a vcu is very cold after a good run then either its a duffer with no drive, there is no drive from IRD so only been turned by rear diff (so no slip) or front tyres are slightly smaller than fronts so vcu doesn't slip when driving in a straight line.
Click to expand...
Hi Austen,

I think you'd better line up one of those nice shiny IRDs for me!
 
Noises are hard to trace, few things that could cause the bbbrrrr, vcu bearing, diff bearing, bird bearing, ird crown wheel and pinion spinning over the top of each other, spline gone on gearbox causing rear wheel drive only, rear diff crown wheel and pinion skipping over top of each other, prop shaft to vcu spline gone, rear diff mounts.....

Happy to look at the car again for you, free of charge. I appreciate it maybe a trek up here though.
 
austen said:
Noises are hard to trace, few things that could cause the bbbrrrr, vcu bearing, diff bearing, bird bearing, ird crown wheel and pinion spinning over the top of each other, spline gone on gearbox causing rear wheel drive only, rear diff crown wheel and pinion skipping over top of each other, prop shaft to vcu spline gone, rear diff mounts.....

Happy to look at the car again for you, free of charge. I appreciate it maybe a trek up here though.
Click to expand...

Well I know my way up to you now :) Let me know a good time for you and I'll throw the propshaft (incl. VCU) in the boot and trot up to yours. Like I said it sounds and feels fine with the front & rear disconnected. Speak Soon.
 
Hi guys, spoke with Ken at Bell today (nice chap!) no pressure, but am now waiting for result of your test rather than drive up to Worc again !!

Hope you find a definitive answer, the problem sounds exactly the same as mine. My Bell VCU has now done 10k miles and seems fine, but everything is definitely tight again. Please can you update when result known? Thanks Andrew
 
andyfreelandy said:
Hi guys, spoke with Ken at Bell today (nice chap!) no pressure, but am now waiting for result of your test rather than drive up to Worc again !!

Hope you find a definitive answer, the problem sounds exactly the same as mine. My Bell VCU has now done 10k miles and seems fine, but everything is definitely tight again. Please can you update when result known? Thanks Andrew
Click to expand...

Hi Andrew,
Im going up to see Ken late next week early week after. Im sure that Bell will sort it all out. I'll keep you all posted.
 
Hi,

Any luck or updates to report? Have changed diff oil to Lucas Heavy Duty type, not sorted it, but it has helped by reducing noise slightly.

Cheers, Andrew
 
Hi All,

Just reporting back on my visit to Bell yesterday. Ken and Austen re-tested the VCU and found no issues with the unit, but replaced it anyway. They also had a good look around the drive train, no major faults found but a) the inner CV joint had a bit of play in it and b) the IRD seemed to be getting excessively warm. So the boys put the prop back on and we went for a spin.. and guess what.
Nothing.. NaDa.. Bugger all! No noises, vibrations nothing! The car didn't feel stiff in the slightest.

So.. its still a mystery. Even after the 70 mile trip back down the M5 to home the car was still behaving itself. So, I'm off to get some gearbox oil today to put in the IRD in case that's the reason its getting hot (or perhaps the cooler is blocked).

BIG BIG Thanks to Ken and Austen for their time yesterday. Great guys! :)

The case continues....
 
IRD fluid changed. Stuff that came out looked a little 'iffy'. The sump plug had a nice crown of swarf on it too. Seems to be an oil leak of some kind near the inner CV joint, looks like some previous owner put some iffy gasket paste on at some point in its previous life.

Well I've got a nice drive up to London next week.. lets see if it goes Foooom!
 
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