Disco 2 Noise from rear when coasting

If you are going to do the wheel bearings yourself you don't need to buy a hugely expensive torque wrench just a long breaker bar, 1/2"drive minimum. (Mine is that and did it OK) and a good strong tube to go over it, like a scaffold pipe, You can use the car's weight or a jack to undo the nut but mine undid with the breaker bar and pipe.
To do it up use your measured body weight standing on the bar-pipe combination at the right place to get it to the right torque.

Easier to calculate, well it was for me, using foot pounds.
I weigh 88 kilos or 193.6 lbs, so if I stood on the 1 foot mark I'd only exert 193.6 ft lbs, so to increase it to the required 362 I had to make a mark 1.89 feet up the bar and stand on it there, until the bar and pipe stopped going round. This has worked fine on all three bearings I have changed and don't forget to get new stake nuts and stake them once done!

To separate the hub from the rest of it, undo the bolts a wee bit then clout the heads of all of them in turn with a good beefy hammer until it starts to move, no need to pry it apart in the tiny, more or less non-existent gap. Just keep undoing them a bit more and clouting it a bit more. Also spray separating fluid in the bolt holes and on the threaded ends of the bolts. The bolts are tight to begin with as they have threadlock on them, you should get new ones with the hub kit. If you don't use the old ones with thread lock on them after giving them a good clean.

And be very careful with threading the wheel speed sensor wires through, don't remove them from the new hubs that'll possibly get you into a world of trouble.

Great, thanks for the tips! I will probably be back here with more questions though

Well, we have an interesting development:

I took it for a drive again to try to do more tests - drive in first gear only, second, third, try low/high, diff-lock engaged, etc.

And then I tried pulling the hand-brake while going down hill (not really sure if this is bad or not for the car). As I started pulling the hand brake the noise diminished. Eventually, as I kept pulling, the noise almost disappeared (almost because I am not sure, a lot other noises from the street/road could not let me be more precise).

Does this mean the problem is / around the hand brake drum? Or is it restricted to the transfer case?

Or it does not mean anything, differential in the rear could still be affected?

Thanks again for following along this adventure

mcbrl said:

Well, we have an interesting development:

I took it for a drive again to try to do more tests - drive in first gear only, second, third, try low/high, diff-lock engaged, etc.

And then I tried pulling the hand-brake while going down hill (not really sure if this is bad or not for the car). As I started pulling the hand brake the noise diminished. Eventually, as I kept pulling, the noise almost disappeared (almost because I am not sure, a lot other noises from the street/road could not let me be more precise).

Does this mean the problem is / around the hand brake drum? Or is it restricted to the transfer case?

Or it does not mean anything, differential in the rear could still be affected?

Thanks again for following along this adventure

Click to expand...

Well I have already told you how to take the handbrake drum off. Just do it and report back!

Stanleysteamer said:

Well I have already told you how to take the handbrake drum off. Just do it and report back!

Click to expand...

Get on a hill, put both the gearbox and the transfer box in neutral, then coast down, if you get the noise and it still goes when you use the handbrake then it seems more likely to be that drum or as I said a long time ago a broken spring inside it, or summat else.

Stanleysteamer said:

Well I have already told you how to take the handbrake drum off. Just do it and report back!

Click to expand...

Just did that. A couple of things:

- The screw that holds the drum was kind of all wrecked (see picture); and drum "cover" that sits on outside the actual drum had a little bit of play
- There is no apparent oil leak inside
- Everything seems to be in order (AFAIK) but here are a couple of videos that I recorded showing "some play" that I would like to know if it is "normal"





I am trying to find a new Drum Screw now... not easy where I am, nobody carries them. Probably gonna have to import it...

mcbrl said:

Just did that. A couple of things:

- The screw that holds the drum was kind of all wrecked (see picture); and drum "cover" that sits on outside the actual drum had a little bit of play
- There is no apparent oil leak inside
- Everything seems to be in order (AFAIK) but here are a couple of videos that I recorded showing "some play" that I would like to know if it is "normal"





I am trying to find a new Drum Screw now... not easy where I am, nobody carries them. Probably gonna have to import it...

Click to expand...

Right, you have mystified me already with the words "drum "cover"". My D2 is a 2000 model and I don't rmember any sort of cover, just the drum, I'll have to get out and get under to see what you mean.
The screw being beggared is totally normal and you don't really need to worry about it as the bolts hold the drum on tight once done up.

From the videos it look as if on the one shoe, either the braking material has got loose, or the part it is attached to has somehow got loose from the part at right angles to it, so that pair of shoes needs replacing.
As for the other loose bit, this strut could well be a bit loose. It is simply the bit that the other end of the shoes, i.e the one that is not being touched by the adjuster, rests on. It will rattle like this when the brake cable is released at the handbrake lever. When braking is applied by the hand brake and its cable it moves to apply the brakes. But it may well be that the brakes need adjusting via the nut on the brake backplate. The thing below the blue painted spring.
Check that the other spring is still in place and not "tired".

The play on the output flange is nothing to worry about and if you are bothered about the screw take it to a fittings factor and tell them you want one like it, or a longer one that you can cut down with a hacksaw.

Have you changed drum brakes before?
Do you have a Haynes manual which will show you how to do it?
If not, I can scan the relevant pages of mine and email them to you if necessary.

i am now hoping that the sound you are hearing is that loose brake shoe rubbing on the inside of the drum.
Are there any score marks on the drum?

Best of luck
Stan.

And when you have got it apart, make sure that the handbrake applying lever at the top of the drum is functioning freely, I.e. that the two parts are not jammed together, and if so, free them off then apply a tiny bit of grease to the rubbing surfaces.

Stanleysteamer said:

Right, you have mystified me already with the words "drum "cover"". My D2 is a 2000 model and I don't rmember any sort of cover, just the drum, I'll have to get out and get under to see what you mean.
The screw being beggared is totally normal and you don't really need to worry about it as the bolts hold the drum on tight once done up.

From the videos it look as if on the one shoe, either the braking material has got loose, or the part it is attached to has somehow got loose from the part at right angles to it, so that pair of shoes needs replacing.
As for the other loose bit, this strut could well be a bit loose. It is simply the bit that the other end of the shoes, i.e the one that is not being touched by the adjuster, rests on. It will rattle like this when the brake cable is released at the handbrake lever. When braking is applied by the hand brake and its cable it moves to apply the brakes. But it may well be that the brakes need adjusting via the nut on the brake backplate. The thing below the blue painted spring.
Check that the other spring is still in place and not "tired".

The play on the output flange is nothing to worry about and if you are bothered about the screw take it to a fittings factor and tell them you want one like it, or a longer one that you can cut down with a hacksaw.

Have you changed drum brakes before?
Do you have a Haynes manual which will show you how to do it?
If not, I can scan the relevant pages of mine and email them to you if necessary.

i am now hoping that the sound you are hearing is that loose brake shoe rubbing on the inside of the drum.
Are there any score marks on the drum?

Best of luck
Stan.

Click to expand...

Thanks again!

I have found a D2 Workshop Manual PDF, thanks. Sorry about confusing the names, when I said "Drum Cover" I actually meant the Drum (item 1 on page 70-27 of said manual)

I have not changed drum brakes before - actually I have not done anything "mechanical" before I had this car I did change the rear prop shaft ujoints at home. And exchanged the front prop shaft with a new one.

I did find this video though, which is helping me understand the mechanisms involved / how to change it:



One thing: at the 11:16 mark, I can see the hand brake expander has a spring attached to it. After inspecting mine, I do not have that... maybe that is why is has so much play. I could not find a reference / weblink that has all the parts detailed for the D2 Drum brake so I could compare. It looks like a Defender in the video but from what I gathered, they are the same as my D2 2004.

I am trying to source the shoes / spring kit locally now.

mcbrl said:

Thanks again!

I have found a D2 Workshop Manual PDF, thanks. Sorry about confusing the names, when I said "Drum Cover" I actually meant the Drum (item 1 on page 70-27 of said manual)

I have not changed drum brakes before - actually I have not done anything "mechanical" before I had this car I did change the rear prop shaft ujoints at home. And exchanged the front prop shaft with a new one.

I did find this video though, which is helping me understand the mechanisms involved / how to change it:



One thing: at the 11:16 mark, I can see the hand brake expander has a spring attached to it. After inspecting mine, I do not have that... maybe that is why is has so much play. I could not find a reference / weblink that has all the parts detailed for the D2 Drum brake so I could compare. It looks like a Defender in the video but from what I gathered, they are the same as my D2 2004.

I am trying to source the shoes / sprint kit locally now.

Click to expand...

The missing spring sure as heck will have an effect. I am now seriously hoping that we have got to the bottom of your troubles.
Good luck in finding the bits and, if you cannot find anything else to help you do the job I can still scan and send you the pics via email if you pm me your email address.

Whatever, if this is the solution it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than replacing diffs etc.
You say you haven't done much "mechanicking" yet you have changed the UJs. As fitting needle roller bearings into the cups in such a joint and keeping them in place while you fit the cross piece is a fiddly flipping business I take my hat off to you. I got it wrong once, a needle bearing had come out of place and dropped to the bottom of the cup, when I "insisted" fitting it in tight enough to be able to relapce the circlip it cracked the bottom of the cup. So one misplaced needle bearing cost me a whole new kit and a lot more time.


any use?
Best of luck.

Stanleysteamer said:

Whatever, if this is the solution it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than replacing diffs etc.
You say you haven't done much "mechanicking" yet you have changed the UJs. As fitting needle roller bearings into the cups in such a joint and keeping them in place while you fit the cross piece is a fiddly flipping business I take my hat off to you. I got it wrong once, a needle bearing had come out of place and dropped to the bottom of the cup, when I "insisted" fitting it in tight enough to be able to relapce the circlip it cracked the bottom of the cup. So one misplaced needle bearing cost me a whole new kit and a lot more time.

Click to expand...

Been there - I had to buy 3 ujoint kits before I found this video:



Then it was a breeze

Stanleysteamer said:

Land Rover Discovery 2 Handbrake | LR Parts

Thousands of Land Rover & Range Rover Spare Parts & Accessories at LR Parts. Get a huge range of Handbrake online today at a price that won't be beaten!

www.lrparts.net

any use?
Best of luck.

Click to expand...

Thanks - it is funny, the images show the hand brake expander with a groove for the spring. Mine does not have that grove for the spring. And the spring kits do not have such spring (they have only four).

mcbrl said:

Been there - I had to buy 3 ujoint kits before I found this video:



Then it was a breeze




Thanks - it is funny, the images show the hand brake expander with a groove for the spring. Mine does not have that grove for the spring. And the spring kits do not have such spring (they have only four).

Click to expand...

right.
Firstly, due to your hand holding the camera/phone while you were wiggling the brake shoe I am now not certain whether the two parts of metal that make up the shoe, have in fact come slightly apart or not.
If NOT then provided there is enough "meat" on the friction material, i.e. the rivets are still below the surface of it, then you do not need to replace the shoes,
I am saying this because the wiggle might just be due to you missing the top spring.
Secondly.
(I have to stress that I haven't done this job on a Discovery before but I have read the Haynes to be sure.) There should only be two return springs, one at the top and one at the bottom, and two small helical springs for the spring cups which secure each shoe to the backplate. So I am mystified as to why you think there should be more than 4 springs. 4 is the correct number, and has been for all the drum brakes I have changed over 42 years odd!

Stanleysteamer said:

right.
Firstly, due to your hand holding the camera/phone while you were wiggling the brake shoe I am now not certain whether the two parts of metal that make up the shoe, have in fact come slightly apart or not.
If NOT then provided there is enough "meat" on the friction material, i.e. the rivets are still below the surface of it, then you do not need to replace the shoes,

Click to expand...

Just inspected that, they are not loose and there is enough "meat". The Drum seems fine, no groves or anything.

Stanleysteamer said:

I am saying this because the wiggle might just be due to you missing the top spring.
Secondly.
(I have to stress that I haven't done this job on a Discovery before but I have read the Haynes to be sure.) There should only be two return springs, one at the top and one at the bottom, and two small helical springs for the spring cups which secure each shoe to the backplate. So I am mystified as to why you think there should be more than 4 springs. 4 is the correct number, and has been for all the drum brakes I have changed over 42 years odd!

Click to expand...

Haha! Yes, there are only those 4 in mine too, just like you described. But the 5th one mentioned is the one I saw in this video () where it seems hold the break expander.

Stanleysteamer said:

Get on a hill, put both the gearbox and the transfer box in neutral, then coast down, if you get the noise and it still goes when you use the handbrake then it seems more likely to be that drum or as I said a long time ago a broken spring inside it, or summat else.

Click to expand...

I just did another test drive, this time without the Drum (not sure if I should/could have done that...) and without the rear prop shaft.

- Going down hill in "Neutrals" - noise still there, much less pronounced, much quieter - but still there
- Engaged Lock in High - noise still there, again much less pronounced. BUT, the noise is present both coasting or accelerating.

So... my guess now is I will have to take the rear half shafts and differential. And learn how to inspect those...

Just a wild question: is it possible to remove the rear differential (just that middle part and the half shafts) and drive around to test the noise? No sure how dumb or dangerous this would be.

Pic from the RAVE manual. As you can see only one spring at the top.

mcbrl said:

I just did another test drive, this time without the Drum (not sure if I should/could have done that...) and without the rear prop shaft.

- Going down hill in "Neutrals" - noise still there, much less pronounced, much quieter - but still there
- Engaged Lock in High - noise still there, again much less pronounced. BUT, the noise is present both coasting or accelerating.

So... my guess now is I will have to take the rear half shafts and differential. And learn how to inspect those...

Just a wild question: is it possible to remove the rear differential (just that middle part and the half shafts) and drive around to test the noise? No sure how dumb or dangerous this would be.

Click to expand...

As long as the hubs and the brakes are all secure then yes I suppose you could, you could even just remove the half-shafts from both hubs and the diff, leaving the diff in place. But I don't see what you are looking for now. That would be a lot of work and strain heaving on your breaker bar.
You will still have to replace that handbrake spring.

Stanleysteamer said:

Pic from the RAVE manual. As you can see only one spring at the top.
View attachment 324398

Click to expand...

Yes! The Drum shown in the video must be different, it got me confused.

Stanleysteamer said:

As long as the hubs and the brakes are all secure then yes I suppose you could, you could even just remove the half-shafts from both hubs and the diff, leaving the diff in place. But I don't see what you are looking for now. That would be a lot of work and strain heaving on your breaker bar.

Click to expand...

I see - since the noise is still there without the Drum, my guess is that the problem should be on the rear axle (right?). I am trying to isolate exactly where it is.

Stanleysteamer said:

You will still have to replace that handbrake spring.

Click to expand...

Yep