philvy
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mine doesnt
No Spark - help please
- Thread starter rustybolts21
- Start date
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mine doesnt
philvy
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Know what? I've got a Ducellier and it's running, I'll make a picture tomorrow and put it on line (might be in the evening though, after work).
Cuz mine HT cyl 1 lead is in the front, and your is near the engine... Just a thought though. So you might be about 90deg ATDC out. If your vac advance is still disconnected you can just turn it till the first ht lead is in the front and try around thereabouts.
Cuz mine HT cyl 1 lead is in the front, and your is near the engine... Just a thought though. So you might be about 90deg ATDC out. If your vac advance is still disconnected you can just turn it till the first ht lead is in the front and try around thereabouts.
Hmm, strange.
nrgserv
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mine did. (see edit ^^^)
but you can build them up 180 deg out by putting the top spindle on the centrifugal advance the wrong way round!
get some good backfire with that!
op's pics did look a bit out with the dizzy angle, and wasnt too sure if plug leads were one out as well!
most of the advise is what i'd say, albeit in a different way, so will see
how it progressess instead of repeating everyone else and adding to the confusion!
keep us posted
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I've never tried rebuilding one - there wasn't enough left of my old one to dismantle! I think a bob weight spring let go leaving behind a mangled mess. I put a complete new one in so there was no alignment problem with the shaft.
rustybolts21
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Thanks for the input fellas.
Just a quick re-cap:
I’ve just bought a 1982 Petrol Series 3, rolling chassis and I’ve having trouble getting the engine to start.
Previous owner had install a new battery, new starter solenoid, new HT leads and a new dizzy cap
There was no spark from the coil HT lead – a new coil was fitted resulting in a spark at the coil HT lead but not at the spark plugs.
Turns out the new dizzy cab fitted by previous owner is a Lucas and the dizzy is Ducellier.
New spark plugs, new dizzy and new cap were installed resulting in spark at the plugs, but still not firing.
Timing re-set by:
Removed No.1 spark plug, put finger in hole and turn crank by hand until pressure felt on finger to indicate piston was on compression stroke.
Set timing pointer to 6 deg. As for 95 octane fuel.
Slacken dizzy pinch bolt and turned dizzy until points just opened, used circuit tester to see when this was.
Adjusted points gap to 0.015 see photos below of re-positioned dizzy.
Connected HT and LT circuits. Tested for spark – good spark at plugs.
Engine turns nice and quick, but still won’t fire.
What do you think to just the one time, a little Easy Start?
Just a quick re-cap:
I’ve just bought a 1982 Petrol Series 3, rolling chassis and I’ve having trouble getting the engine to start.
Previous owner had install a new battery, new starter solenoid, new HT leads and a new dizzy cap
There was no spark from the coil HT lead – a new coil was fitted resulting in a spark at the coil HT lead but not at the spark plugs.
Turns out the new dizzy cab fitted by previous owner is a Lucas and the dizzy is Ducellier.
New spark plugs, new dizzy and new cap were installed resulting in spark at the plugs, but still not firing.
Timing re-set by:
Removed No.1 spark plug, put finger in hole and turn crank by hand until pressure felt on finger to indicate piston was on compression stroke.
Set timing pointer to 6 deg. As for 95 octane fuel.
Slacken dizzy pinch bolt and turned dizzy until points just opened, used circuit tester to see when this was.
Adjusted points gap to 0.015 see photos below of re-positioned dizzy.
Connected HT and LT circuits. Tested for spark – good spark at plugs.
Engine turns nice and quick, but still won’t fire.
What do you think to just the one time, a little Easy Start?
philvy
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- Frankfurt, Germany
If you're so keen on easy start, sure, do it. It'll just ruin your rings...
You dont have to use easy start on a petrol 2.25. It will fire up happily with petrol only.
Now I suspect you have one of the following problems:
a
Timing way out
b
No petrol
For b:
Take off intake elbow (oil bath filter - hard rubber hose - metal intake elbow) above carb and push the accelerator at the carb - does it squirt petrol when looking into carb?
For a:
See posts before
For neither of these easy start will be any help. If your acceleration pump on the carb works AND there is petrol coming to the carb, she will fire up and propably die IF the timing is more or less right.
About your reading of "compression stroke": Still can be 180deg out if you didnt look at your valves mate. Suck, compress, power, puff <- means two full turns! So your finger was in the compress or puff region... Questions: Which one was it? How do you know?
simples
You dont have to use easy start on a petrol 2.25. It will fire up happily with petrol only.
Now I suspect you have one of the following problems:
a
Timing way out
b
No petrol
For b:
Take off intake elbow (oil bath filter - hard rubber hose - metal intake elbow) above carb and push the accelerator at the carb - does it squirt petrol when looking into carb?
For a:
See posts before
For neither of these easy start will be any help. If your acceleration pump on the carb works AND there is petrol coming to the carb, she will fire up and propably die IF the timing is more or less right.
About your reading of "compression stroke": Still can be 180deg out if you didnt look at your valves mate. Suck, compress, power, puff <- means two full turns! So your finger was in the compress or puff region... Questions: Which one was it? How do you know?
simples
brnocz
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perhaps and only a thought as the wrong type rotor arm been fitted or as some one used sand paper or a file to clean it, and cleaned it that much the spark isnt reaching the spark plug leads
You have a new, pristine dizzy, your method of setting the timing seems about right and you're now getting spark at the plugs so I think your ignition is set OK - now it's time to look at the carb. First check the air filter hose hasn't collapsed by pulling it off the top of the carb and seeing if it will start.
After turning over the engine are the plugs wet and petrol smelling? If they are your petrol might be a bit on the old side, if not then it's time to check the fuel feed to the carb, pull the feed pipe off the carb, put it in a jamjar and see if petrol flows when you turn the engine over. No fuel? clean out the filter in the tank and the sedimentation bowl and filter in the pump, blow through all the fuel lines and if it still doesn't work replace the pump.
If fuel is getting to the carb you might need to strip and clean out this.
A possible diagnostic technique was shown to me by a mechanic I used to know - pull the air filter hose off and instead of easystart just squirt neat petrol into the top of the carb while turning the engine over. A washing up liquid bottle is good for this. If it fires up the ignition system is working properly.
After turning over the engine are the plugs wet and petrol smelling? If they are your petrol might be a bit on the old side, if not then it's time to check the fuel feed to the carb, pull the feed pipe off the carb, put it in a jamjar and see if petrol flows when you turn the engine over. No fuel? clean out the filter in the tank and the sedimentation bowl and filter in the pump, blow through all the fuel lines and if it still doesn't work replace the pump.
If fuel is getting to the carb you might need to strip and clean out this.
A possible diagnostic technique was shown to me by a mechanic I used to know - pull the air filter hose off and instead of easystart just squirt neat petrol into the top of the carb while turning the engine over. A washing up liquid bottle is good for this. If it fires up the ignition system is working properly.
rustybolts21
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Good tip. I'll try disconnecting the fuel line putting it to a jam jar and squiting fresh petrol into the carb tomorrow. bit too drunk at the moment
I had already taken the air filter and hose off. Petrol is getting to the carb, but it's the petrol that was in the tank when I bought the chassis, so it may well be contaminated with water.
Hopefully it'll fire up and then I can get stuck in to a complete strip down which will of course include the entire fuel/carb system.
I had already taken the air filter and hose off. Petrol is getting to the carb, but it's the petrol that was in the tank when I bought the chassis, so it may well be contaminated with water.
Hopefully it'll fire up and then I can get stuck in to a complete strip down which will of course include the entire fuel/carb system.
dr pepper
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Petrol burns, easy start detonates, the pressure rise is many times what the piston can take, it affects the rings by hammering the crown of the piston over causing it to grip the top ring which then cannot move and when the engine warms up it breaks dont use it.
if you tip a little petrol down the inlet as mentioned the engine ought to run, not well but just about if the ignition is ok.
If the engine runs then you have a fuel problem, cack in the fuel, duff pump, stuck float chamber float, cack on the carby needles, someone fidling with the carb setting screws etc.
If you have the squeezy bottle then fill the float chamber with juice, the engine should run as long as you keep the level correct.
if you tip a little petrol down the inlet as mentioned the engine ought to run, not well but just about if the ignition is ok.
If the engine runs then you have a fuel problem, cack in the fuel, duff pump, stuck float chamber float, cack on the carby needles, someone fidling with the carb setting screws etc.
If you have the squeezy bottle then fill the float chamber with juice, the engine should run as long as you keep the level correct.
nrgserv
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right. seen the pic i was gonna ask for before confusing you.
remove the orange oil filler cap.
looking into rockerbox top, the valve in line with the inlet manifold (second from front),
watch this.
do your plug hole and finger thing. (i use a gas welding rod)
turn the engine till you see the inlet valve open.
keep goin till you feel the piston comin up.
just prior to the top, look at the front drive pulley for the timing mark coming up to the pointer on the block. this ensures your on the ignition stroke.
stop turning when you get to the 6 deg before top dead centre mark.
remove dizzy cap. points should just be starting to open, (twist dizzy if necersary) and rotor arm should be pointing roughly towards no.1 cylinder.
timing should be set good enough for it to start.
you say a spark is now visible at a plug on plug lead, so its pointing towards a fuel issue.
drop some fuel into carb as already suggested.
when turning engine over, would expect at least a cough from it trying.
warning note- if timing is out, or badly seating valve, its not uncommon for a backfire to come back up carb. keep your face away!
let us know if it coughs.
remove the orange oil filler cap.
looking into rockerbox top, the valve in line with the inlet manifold (second from front),
watch this.
do your plug hole and finger thing. (i use a gas welding rod)
turn the engine till you see the inlet valve open.
keep goin till you feel the piston comin up.
just prior to the top, look at the front drive pulley for the timing mark coming up to the pointer on the block. this ensures your on the ignition stroke.
stop turning when you get to the 6 deg before top dead centre mark.
remove dizzy cap. points should just be starting to open, (twist dizzy if necersary) and rotor arm should be pointing roughly towards no.1 cylinder.
timing should be set good enough for it to start.
you say a spark is now visible at a plug on plug lead, so its pointing towards a fuel issue.
drop some fuel into carb as already suggested.
when turning engine over, would expect at least a cough from it trying.
warning note- if timing is out, or badly seating valve, its not uncommon for a backfire to come back up carb. keep your face away!
let us know if it coughs.
rustybolts21
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It fired up
Stripped the carb down - there was water in the float bowl.
Put the fuel line into a brandy bottle (the one I finished of last night, I didn't have any jam!)
Put the screw driver across the solinoid, engine turned, bottle started filling with petrol, so pump and line seem ok.
Squirted fresh petrol into clean carb and it fired up. No coughing or backfires
Thanks for all you help fellas. I gonna start a new thread to pick your brains before the next stage of my restoration project.
Stripped the carb down - there was water in the float bowl.
Put the fuel line into a brandy bottle (the one I finished of last night, I didn't have any jam!)
Put the screw driver across the solinoid, engine turned, bottle started filling with petrol, so pump and line seem ok.
Squirted fresh petrol into clean carb and it fired up. No coughing or backfires
Thanks for all you help fellas. I gonna start a new thread to pick your brains before the next stage of my restoration project.
philvy
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- Frankfurt, Germany
Wasnt there mention of a bottle of brandy if it fired up for those in this thread?
Last edited:
nrgserv
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Wasnt there mention of a bottle of brandy if it fired up for those in this thread?
mines a guinness
philvy
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mines a guinness
I'd prefer a guinness, too. But if brandy is on offer. Well, anyway:
rusty, thanks, one guinness for nrg and the brandy for me.
Cheers
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