New Tyres and alloys - wheel judder?

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henry_exeter

henry_exeter

New Member
Posts
18
Location
Exeter
Hi

Bit of a strange one here.

I recently bought a second hand set of alloys (Disco Mk 1) for my 1989 Defender TD (with 300TDi engine - if that makes any difference!).

I put some Colway 235x85 R 16s on - before it has 7.50r16 tyres - so the new ones were slightly bigger.

After fitting I found I had shudder through the steering wheel - this was most noticeable when NOT steering (ie no pressure on steering wheel and going in a straight line) and between 40 and 50 MPH.

I had the wheels balanced and checked - which made no difference.

Today I swapped one front wheel with the spare (steel) with the same 235x85 type of tyre. It made no difference. I then swapped with the other front wheel - still no difference.

I then replace BOTH front wheels with the original steels and 7.50R16 - FIX!

So what is going on? Replacing both alloy wheels with the smaller 7.50R16 steels fixes it. Replacing either one with a steel rim but keeping the larger 235x85 does not.

So do I have a problem with larger tyres? Have I been very unlucky and have MULTIPLE faulty tyres?

Another point - my father is a mechanic and replaced my swivel hub bearings back in the spring. He said that I only had a single bearing one each side rather than one at the top and bottom - the old ones had been very poor. Also - I replaced the track rod ends last year. This information might be useful....?

Thanks for any ideas....

Henry

Exeter
 
odd.........the 235's are wider than the 750's so would tend to exaggerate any problem but it does sound like wheel balance. Are the tyres new? If not are they castellated?
 
Hi

Yes, the tyres are brand new - and I thought balance as well - so I got them balanced.

Swapping both front - rear makes no difference.

It seems that putting the bigger/wider tyres on and/or alloys is causing the issue (or revealing it).

Henry
 
Check the tyre pressures and have a look at the steering damper - may not be man enough for the new offset/ tyre size

Just a thought...
 
johnlad said:
buckled alloy?
Click to expand...

I thought that - but I changed them both - so I would have to have two bucked alloys.

AND - I also tried with one side with a steel 7.50 on it and the other side with a steel 235x85 on it - okay, not the best to drive with, but okay for a quick test. i found this combination didn't cure the problem, but it seemed reduced.

So I either have a problem with ALL of my tyres, on my land rover has a problem with 235x85 tyres.

Henry
 
Hi

I can probably rule out the bucked alloy - as one of my combinations was a steel with 7.50r16 on it and the other side steel with 235x85 - so no alloys involved. This did seem to reduce it a little (and I know that having different sized tyres on the same axle is not good - I gave the diff a work out!).

All tyres has their pressure checked as they went on.

The damper is an interesting idea.

I have heard that there can be problems when setting up the swivel hub bearings - pre-tension etc. Do people think that this might be the issue? Would putting on larger tyres make this more apparent?

Henry
 
To start with if your 89 defender has the origanal axles, then the studs are not designed for alloy wheel nuts. easy way to tell is if there is a line on the end of each stud the are sutible for alloy wheel nuts. if not and they are just plain ends then they are to short!

Next asuming it is the origanal axle they have huge drive members and a lot of disco alloy wheels fowl these, take a look at the inside of the alloys for any marks. My dad had a disco alloys on and the wheel fell off while in a local garage for mot, for this very pair of problems.
 
OK - that could be a problem! The alloy nuts went on easily though and when you spin the wheel, nothing seems to be 'connecting'.

I'll check the studs tomorrow.

Henry
 
stud length is a problem, but id imagin that its wheels fowling on the drive members thats your problem.

which alloys do you have?

easyest fix (for both these problems) is putting on wheel spacers on, not cheep though. o
 
ok end of wheel studs are marked or stamped with a ( - or v) im sure v is alloys but dont hold me to it,if you have the early hubs the wheel will foul. you will notice this as it gets really tight when fitting also the centre cap of wheel wont fit if you remove the wheel you will notice scores on the inside centre of wheel,easy fix buy some wheel spacers but good quality ones and not second hand either your life relies on them.had this prob with my 90 spacers sorted it out see the pics of my 90 with disco wheels in my profile.
 
if its an old 90/110 then you may have problems with the alloys not sitting properly against the front hubs. If this is the case then you will need a couple of 4-5mm spacers to get the wheels to sit properly.
 
Hi

I am going to check out the alloys as I don't want them falling off - but that really can't be the cause of the judder problem - as it did it even when I had steel wheels on (and the bigger tyres).

My gut feeling is that the bigger tyres made an existing issue more apparent.

Henry
 
sorry, in your first post you said that putting the steels back on fixed the problem so if that is the case i would say it was more related to fitting the new wheels.

If you look between the wheel and the front disc there will more than likely be a gap of about 4-5mm which means the inside of the alloy is actually sitting on the front hub nuts and could cause more problems if not sorted but the rears should fit no problem to the drums (this was the case with mine too). There are spacers available on ebay for around £16-20 a set but dont go for the universal type as they dont fit.

The other option would be to stick with the steels and get rid of the alloys (the route im taking) but since you bought them im guessing thats not an option to you.

If its not the wheels fitting badly then you might want to look at the condition of the bushes, if your front arm bushes are perished this could cause the problem too.
 
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