JoethePlumber
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So you're going from a, and I quote, "a really basic Berlingo 1.9," to a spanking new 110 Van, may I ask why.
Yes.
New 110 Van - DPF concerns
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Yes.
JoethePlumber
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Sorry, couldn't resist that.
Simply because I'm fifty in a few weeks and felt like treating myself.
Simply because I'm fifty in a few weeks and felt like treating myself.
Spunka
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Have you asked if the DPF is covered in the warranty full term,
I would like the answer to be yes and in writing ,not just from the sales mans mouth
I would like the answer to be yes and in writing ,not just from the sales mans mouth
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JoethePlumber
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I've e-mailed the dealer asking them to confirm with Land Rover that the DPF will be okay with the type of use I make of my van. I'll be interested to see what they say.
I don't mind taking the van for a decent drive periodically to keep it working okay, as long as it's not every week, given the fuel 'economy' I'm expecting from it.
I don't mind taking the van for a decent drive periodically to keep it working okay, as long as it's not every week, given the fuel 'economy' I'm expecting from it.
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JoethePlumber
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Thanks very much, will do. The dealer has just been back in touch to say he'll check with them when they re-open on January 2nd.
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joe,dont forget to have their response put in writing,then they cannot deny it can they.get them to use headed notepaper and get the company stamp on it as well.
wack61
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It doesn't look to me like any of them consider it a warranty claim if it clogs, just a goodwill gesture
Problems with diesel particulate filters may push companies towards petrol
Vauxhall confirmed it “does not pay under warranty” for DPF blockages because there is no defect with the vehicle.
Renault doesn’t have advice in its owner manuals because it says the customer – both fleet and retail – should have been qualified as right for diesel at the point of sale.
“We will cover the first forced regeneration and after that it will become the customer’s responsibility,” said a spokesman.
Ford said in the case of a DPF failure it needed to understand the full reasons behind it to decide if the repair could be covered under warranty.
A BMW spokesman said drivers should make a journey longer than 30 minutes each week so the exhaust can reach the optimum temperature.
He added that as the DPF blockage wasn’t a design fault, who should pay for repairs is judged on a case-by-case basis.
“There may be other factors that have an impact on the car’s performance and these would be taken into consideration. It would not be sufficient for any issue to be covered by BMW without question,” he explained.
Peugeot said its DPF technology – badged FAP – has evolved since introduction in 2001 and was now in its third generation. The system is standard on all 2001-built Euro 4 models as well as newer cars.
A spokesman said dealers had traditionally covered DPF unclogging outside of warranty as a goodwill gesture. This generally involves changing the filter or forcing the vehicle through a ‘regeneration’.
Problems with diesel particulate filters may push companies towards petrol
Vauxhall confirmed it “does not pay under warranty” for DPF blockages because there is no defect with the vehicle.
Renault doesn’t have advice in its owner manuals because it says the customer – both fleet and retail – should have been qualified as right for diesel at the point of sale.
“We will cover the first forced regeneration and after that it will become the customer’s responsibility,” said a spokesman.
Ford said in the case of a DPF failure it needed to understand the full reasons behind it to decide if the repair could be covered under warranty.
A BMW spokesman said drivers should make a journey longer than 30 minutes each week so the exhaust can reach the optimum temperature.
He added that as the DPF blockage wasn’t a design fault, who should pay for repairs is judged on a case-by-case basis.
“There may be other factors that have an impact on the car’s performance and these would be taken into consideration. It would not be sufficient for any issue to be covered by BMW without question,” he explained.
Peugeot said its DPF technology – badged FAP – has evolved since introduction in 2001 and was now in its third generation. The system is standard on all 2001-built Euro 4 models as well as newer cars.
A spokesman said dealers had traditionally covered DPF unclogging outside of warranty as a goodwill gesture. This generally involves changing the filter or forcing the vehicle through a ‘regeneration’.
JoethePlumber
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I've just found this article:
2012 Land Rover Defender review - What Car?
This bit is of particular (pun intended) interest:
"While many modern diesel particulate filters require the car to be run regularly at high speeds to prevent them from clogging, Land Rover's DPF has been designed to remain clear even with consistent low-speed running – handy if your Defender is plugging around the farm or country estate."
There's also this from a different article:
“For Euro 6 you’re getting to such low levels of emissions that we’d have to do a lot of re-engineering to the vehicle architecture,” says Gary Taylor, chief programme engineer for the Defender. “When it gets to that you’d say that you wouldn’t start with this platform – so you have to look at other things.”
Which is why the latest version will also be the last. A Euro 5 diesel engine and improved NVH levels are enough to keep it going until its replacement – based on the DC100 concept – appears in 2015.
The 2.2-litre diesel, developed from Ford’s Puma commercial vehicle engine, replaces the former 2.4-litre unit. Output is the same but changes to the compression ratio, fuel injection and aftertreatment make it cleaner and quieter. Packaging the diesel particulate filter (DPF) meant changing some of the footwell pressings but allowed it to be close-coupled, improving light-off times. Duty cycles are harsh, though – many vehicles will not see the high-speed cruising that typically purges DPFs of soot.
“Because we’ve got the DPF so close to the manifold, the gas temperatures we get in there mean that the vehicle can run at much lower speeds and for shorter periods during regeneration,” says Taylor. “We can do it at around 30km/h, so it should be durable. We’ve done a lot of work on oil dilution to understand the long-term implications of that.”
Both sound promising, if indeed they're correct of course.
2012 Land Rover Defender review - What Car?
This bit is of particular (pun intended) interest:
"While many modern diesel particulate filters require the car to be run regularly at high speeds to prevent them from clogging, Land Rover's DPF has been designed to remain clear even with consistent low-speed running – handy if your Defender is plugging around the farm or country estate."
There's also this from a different article:
“For Euro 6 you’re getting to such low levels of emissions that we’d have to do a lot of re-engineering to the vehicle architecture,” says Gary Taylor, chief programme engineer for the Defender. “When it gets to that you’d say that you wouldn’t start with this platform – so you have to look at other things.”
Which is why the latest version will also be the last. A Euro 5 diesel engine and improved NVH levels are enough to keep it going until its replacement – based on the DC100 concept – appears in 2015.
The 2.2-litre diesel, developed from Ford’s Puma commercial vehicle engine, replaces the former 2.4-litre unit. Output is the same but changes to the compression ratio, fuel injection and aftertreatment make it cleaner and quieter. Packaging the diesel particulate filter (DPF) meant changing some of the footwell pressings but allowed it to be close-coupled, improving light-off times. Duty cycles are harsh, though – many vehicles will not see the high-speed cruising that typically purges DPFs of soot.
“Because we’ve got the DPF so close to the manifold, the gas temperatures we get in there mean that the vehicle can run at much lower speeds and for shorter periods during regeneration,” says Taylor. “We can do it at around 30km/h, so it should be durable. We’ve done a lot of work on oil dilution to understand the long-term implications of that.”
Both sound promising, if indeed they're correct of course.
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"Economy" from our 2.2's is about 100 miles a tank less than the 2.4's we had. maybe an older used one would be better.
JoethePlumber
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My dealer got back to me today (just as promised - I like this chap), and Land Rover Technical have told him that my expected use of the 110 will be similar to those that are used on the Land Rover Off Road Experience and do only around 3000 miles a year. They haven't had DPF problems, so they [LRT] assure me mine should be fine.
He also stressed the importance of annual servicing. That's something I'm fully aware of and will be scrupulously adhering to.
Good news indeed, and I'm eagerly awaiting delivery now.
He also stressed the importance of annual servicing. That's something I'm fully aware of and will be scrupulously adhering to.
Good news indeed, and I'm eagerly awaiting delivery now.
wack61
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I don't think annual servicing is as big a deal as they make out on low mileage vehicles
Oil these days is much better than the crap they put it years ago
My iveco daily has 25,000 mile intervals
A guy at work asked the maintenance guy to look at his car, a fiesta , it was leaking oil
The oil filter had rusted through, when did you last have it serviced, I've never had it serviced
He'd been driving it for 8 years on the oil that was in it, all he did then was buy a filter and top it up
It lasted another 3 years until the clutch went and he scrapped it
11 years on the same oil , never let him down once
Oil these days is much better than the crap they put it years ago
My iveco daily has 25,000 mile intervals
A guy at work asked the maintenance guy to look at his car, a fiesta , it was leaking oil
The oil filter had rusted through, when did you last have it serviced, I've never had it serviced
He'd been driving it for 8 years on the oil that was in it, all he did then was buy a filter and top it up
It lasted another 3 years until the clutch went and he scrapped it
11 years on the same oil , never let him down once
JoethePlumber
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That's interesting, thanks, but...
I'm intending to keep the 110 until I retire, in theory in 15 years time. It will only be doing about 6000 miles a year. I'll have to have it serviced to LR standards and using genuine parts for the first three to keep the warranty intact. I may also extend it, depending on how reliable the van's been. After that, it will probably go to the local garage who I currently use.
The long service intervals on many modern vehicles are primarily to keep fleet managers happy. They will only keep the car or van for three years and sell it off, so don't care what state the engine's in after that. All they want is minimal servicing and maximum time on the road.
While I was doing my HNC back in the 1980s, my class-mate's girlfriend was doing a degree in industrial chemistry and used the degradation of old engine oil as part of her thesis. The results left us all unshakably convinced of the benefits of 3000 mile oil changes, albeit based on the mineral oils of the day.
The oil in their Escort, on an acidity rating of 0 - 10, where 0 was pure acid, was 0.25 after 5000 miles. It was already doing damage to the engine by attacking the components, notwithstanding the fracturing of the chain molecules by shearing (which is why it seems to go 'thin' - it literally wears out).
I'll happily leave the fully synthetic oil in our 2010 Fiesta to once a year and around 10,000 miles these days, but there's no way I'd risk leaving the 110 longer than once a year.
I'm quite capable of servicing it myself incidentally, but I simply can't be bothered to work on my own vehicles these days, except as a hobby.
I'm intending to keep the 110 until I retire, in theory in 15 years time. It will only be doing about 6000 miles a year. I'll have to have it serviced to LR standards and using genuine parts for the first three to keep the warranty intact. I may also extend it, depending on how reliable the van's been. After that, it will probably go to the local garage who I currently use.
The long service intervals on many modern vehicles are primarily to keep fleet managers happy. They will only keep the car or van for three years and sell it off, so don't care what state the engine's in after that. All they want is minimal servicing and maximum time on the road.
While I was doing my HNC back in the 1980s, my class-mate's girlfriend was doing a degree in industrial chemistry and used the degradation of old engine oil as part of her thesis. The results left us all unshakably convinced of the benefits of 3000 mile oil changes, albeit based on the mineral oils of the day.
The oil in their Escort, on an acidity rating of 0 - 10, where 0 was pure acid, was 0.25 after 5000 miles. It was already doing damage to the engine by attacking the components, notwithstanding the fracturing of the chain molecules by shearing (which is why it seems to go 'thin' - it literally wears out).
I'll happily leave the fully synthetic oil in our 2010 Fiesta to once a year and around 10,000 miles these days, but there's no way I'd risk leaving the 110 longer than once a year.
I'm quite capable of servicing it myself incidentally, but I simply can't be bothered to work on my own vehicles these days, except as a hobby.
owl
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I work for a main dealer and I can say that since they have been fitting DPF's on Fenders I have only seen two with DPF problems and both had misfire issues that had been ignored, both were fixed under warranty too.
Talking to LR they do have DPF problems in London and Fenders on farms that never see the road.
Talking to LR they do have DPF problems in London and Fenders on farms that never see the road.
