My Review of a Timber Trail Boost Pin. Defender 200tdi. (or 300tdi)

Hi. I normally only use the forum for resurch, but for once, I thought i'd share my experience.

So I bought one a week ago from timbertrail4x4.com. Looked on the forum and found mixed reviews but thought i'd give one a go. My 110 200tdi defender is incredibly sluggish. I've got some decent hills around the farm, and my landy really struggles to pull itself up them. I've got to red line it in first, change to second quickly, and if i miss the turbo, it slows to a crawl and I've got to drop it to first again, so i thought id do something about it. Didn't want to start tuning the fuel pump in case I got it wrong, and it seemed like a bit of a faf, all this turning screws and checking gauges, so i thought, new boost pin? easy? more power in 5 minuets? no hassle?

I'll put the bottom line at the top, don't bother. Wast of time. Waste of money (and it is quite expensive).

So i fitted it easy enough (once i'd got the stubborn screws off the top of the pump, good old mole grips), and took it for a drive. Wow, i thought. This is more like it! Tones of power and was flying up hill. I can now change up a gear going up hill.

However, there was a hell of a lot of black smoke coming out of the back end (before there was none, ever). On the road, pulling in 5th, the smoke was constant. Unacceptable. I think i'm right in thinking black smoke = over fueling = hot gas in exhaust manifold = cracked manifold or knackered pistons. Not good.

The instructions say to file the nylon washer down to half size. Didn't really want to do this as i doubt you can buy them if i need to refit back to standard, so i put it back in hole. But still loads of smoke (just a little less).

I found some info on youtube and started tweaking the fuel screw (back of pump), smoke screw (top of pump) and star wheel (in pump), and improved it a bit, but then thought "hang on, I bought this pin so I didnt have to mess with the pump. what's the point?".

Now I have bought myself a turbo gauge and EGT gauge and i'm going to tweak the pump using the information found on this forum, which is what I would recommend to anyone thinking of spending £60 on an new pin. The old one is fine and use the money on a good EGT gauge/turbo gauge.

I hope this is of use to someone...

Will

p.s. regarding tuning the pump, I have found loads of info and different ways of doing it. Is this a good guide https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/ricks-200tdi-tuning-guide.254178/ ?
If I follow it I don't think i can go too wrong, especially after fitting an EGT gauge....

Sounds like something wasn't right before you fitted the pin. Ideally you want to put the pump back to it's before-pin set-up and look at what's causing the sluggishness. You may struggle to get the pump back to normal, unless you made very careful notes about what was adjusted and how.
Simple things to start with would be lift pump and fuel filter check/change and timing. Good luck.

A well serviced 200tdi should not be sluggish as standard. Both of mine are quick off of the mark and pull well. I haven't changed any boost settings. Fix that before you try and boost your way around a much larger problem.

Don't forget tappet clearances. Always best to make sure everything is well serviced before messing with fueling.

You've definitely got other issues pal, my 300tdi towed a heavy trailer plus a discovery back from Swindon way to Derbyshire and barely missed a beat, pulling up the hills on the bottom end of the M42 without having to change down. Even more fun when the brake pipe split two miles away from home

I too, think you have other things going on - a boost pin should offer a significant improvement.

+1

Sounds like something is wrong with your 110. Hell even a 2.5NAD should run ok, a stock Tdi should be no probs on any hill, let alone 1st to 2nd gear.

If it smoked excessively that sounds like it's highlighting the issue. Maybe you aren't get enough boost or there is a boost leak or turbo issue. Certainly something up anyhow.

I took my boost pin out to see how she went, couldn't live without it so it went back in. Turbo gauge and egt are good to have installed

On an old diesel, trying to get power without smoke is hard and I would say in fact almost impossible.

The fact is the 200 is old, is underpowered and basically slow, even when compared to something mundane like a nissan micra.

You are always go to get different opinions on engines and theres always someone who says mine pulls like a train, Ive always translated this to mean its an underpowered piece of crap that never gets up to speed, so yes its always pulling as its got no choice!

Ref the fip pin, Im not sure I see the point as you will get the same results with the std pin just by rotating it clockwise.

Mate put the new pin in a 300 and reckoned it was better but did smoke in every gear and especially under load.

Even modern common rails chipped smoke a little, its just they hide it better.

Quick rough google shows
Nissan micra 1.2 petrol manual 0/60 16 secs
Nissan micra 1.5 diesel manual 0/60 12 secs
Discovery 200tdi manual 0/60 17 secs (couldnt find defender 200)
D3 2,7 0/60 auto 11 secs
So basically granny is going to blow you away at the traffic light grand prix

lynall said:

Quick rough google shows
Nissan micra 1.2 petrol manual 0/60 16 secs
Nissan micra 1.5 diesel manual 0/60 12 secs
Discovery 200tdi manual 0/60 17 secs (couldnt find defender 200)
D3 2,7 0/60 auto 11 secs
So basically granny is going to blow you away at the traffic light grand prix

Click to expand...

More like a granny on a push bike

lynall said:

Quick rough google shows
Nissan micra 1.2 petrol manual 0/60 16 secs
Nissan micra 1.5 diesel manual 0/60 12 secs
Discovery 200tdi manual 0/60 17 secs (couldnt find defender 200)
D3 2,7 0/60 auto 11 secs
So basically granny is going to blow you away at the traffic light grand prix

Click to expand...

You are missing the point. Once rolling a good tdi will go well and have more than enough pike for normal road use and even over taking. Let's remember it's not as if every other car on the road is driven at full throttle all the time either.

I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with my engine. It's well serviced and the cam belt was done recently. I just think the 200tdi's are weak engines.

I blew a rod out the side of my old engine, when that was running healthy it was sluggish. After i swapped in a new 200 from a doner 90, it ran ex-actually the same.

It's old now (1992), and they weren't great when they were new, the 300's were much better.

I don't care about speed, its a Land Rover anyway, just want to be able to pull. ATM i cant pull uphill without thrashing it.

People might disagree, but I think there is a big difference between the 90's and 110's. Same power but the 110's have a lot more steel in the chassis, so if a 90 pulls well, it might not be the same story in the 110.

I have the pump all back to standard now, I noted all my changes well. I would take a video of it pulling but I have the exhaust manifold on the workbench atm, ready to tap my EGT gauge. I would of had it done today but i tried to take the turbo off. Big mistake. Those nuts would have been difficult if they weren't seized on...

300bhp/ton said:

You are missing the point. Once rolling a good tdi will go well and have more than enough pike for normal road use and even over taking. Let's remember it's not as if every other car on the road is driven at full throttle all the time either.

Click to expand...

I dont think so I have two sat outside my house and can say hand on heart underpowered whether rolling or not.
As for full throttle use once out of town thats pretty much how I drive the pair of them again as said above they are old underpowered engines and need hammering just to get anywhere, that sounds mad/boasting but it doesnt even mean they keep up with modern traffic.

I think people need to accept the next generation of motor always beats the one before.
200/300 even tuned will have a hard time against a td5, tune the td5 and its away, same with td5 against 2.7 v6 and 2.7 v6 against 3.0 v6.

My series 2 was originally a 2.0 litre diesel, now that was scarily underpowered, (Im sure fine somewhere sleepy but down here!} in the end after to many close shaves it got a 200tdi, much better but not the torque making gearbox destroying monster people will try and have others believe.

Arguing about whether a tdi can pull the skin off a rice pudding or burn up a pushbike is a bit subjective and kinda pointless.

Being able to change into 2nd without having to thrash the nuts off it isnt.

A healthy 200 whether it's in a 90/110 or a much heavier Disco shouldn't struggle to get to 2nd unless your towing a house up a cliff face.

3rd to 4th on a hill then maybe but 1st to 2nd something really isn't right.

Boost pins are expensive for what they are but they're not quite the same as tweaking with a standard pin because the profile is different so instead of increasing the amount of fueling as a starting point under boost they increase fueling more quickly throughout the boost range.....if that makes sense.

Whether the difference is worth the money is personal choice but plenty think they are and complaints are usually about soft material scoring on cheaper pins rather than paying for snake oil.

I'd still be looking for delaminated hoses, clogged filters or holes in the boost pipe first though

I don't agree the 200tdi is a weak engine, but mine's a lot better since I got the injection pump refurbed.

billiam said:

People might disagree, but I think there is a big difference between the 90's and 110's. Same power but the 110's have a lot more steel in the chassis, so if a 90 pulls well, it might not be the same story in the 110.

Click to expand...

But when said 90 is pulling a heavy trailer plus a discovery I think any weight different is somewhat lost

It should still pull in 1St n second tho.. Unless it's a stupidly steep hill lol

It could well be time to change the air filter - I bought a stainless boost pin off of eBay and it was good but very smokey. I thought I'd fit a new filter with it, and bought at the same time, but didn't fit immediately.

I changed the air filter (6 months old) and the difference was huge - hardly any smoke even when ragging it.

I have a Timber Trail pin fitted to my 300tdi, granted it is in good condition, having been bought new and complete 10k miles ago, the difference in performance is subtle but noticable, it pulls up hills more strongly than before and I bottled it at an indicated 95mph.....there is NO black smoke as often seen with td5 chips.....it does what it does very well for a 20 minute fit, with no faffing.......