My crazy diff ratio change idea

RRMaximus said:

I looked on gentlemen of salvage and they have multiple pictures of diffs from many different angles and all of the mounting points look exactly the same.

I just thought to make sure I could ask the question here and get the answer.

I can already tell from being under the car that changing the two diffs will be incredibly easy compared to anything else that I could do to solve this concern that I have.

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But are the drive shafts the same as the diesel may produce more torque and so have heftier half shafts.

RRMaximus said:

That is only your opinion as there is nothing that you have said in your conclusions that is factual, based on your data.

On your reasoning I could drive around in second gear for a month and it wouldn't make any difference to the engine.

I don't know anyone who thinks that a car driving at a higher RPM than necessary is a good thing but more power to you.

Your plots do not show that the car would be terrible to drive, that is just your opinion.

I shared with you real world reasons why it would not be terrible to drive.

I answered everything you said with real world answers, not plots on a chart that you then extrapolated to magically prove your point.

And that is why I am not listening to you, because you are taking the extreme position rather than looking at the actual data.

You already made up your mind from the very beginning and all you have done is try to justify that opinion.

Given my driving style I use less than half the horsepower available from my engine.

The differential change would be a 24% difference so well within my use needs.

My car was not designed for my specific needs, it was designed for a range of needs, for many different customers.

To cheaply modify it to meet my needs is not a crazy idea, it is a logical idea.

To assume that the original specification of the car is perfect for every single person in every single use case is crazy.

Yet that is your argument.

And that is why I am not listening to your conclusions despite your data.

RRPhil indicated that my current second gear would be close to my proposed first gear with the changes and that means I can use second gear to launch and see how that feels.

That is using data to then look at the real world, not to form a biased opinion.

Maybe you want to develop that skill.

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Taller gearing would make 1st gear close to your current 2nd gear not the way round you state.

Grrrrrr said:

Yeah, just got to the bottom of the thread and see events have progressed.

Changing diffs is quite usual on race cars or where people change wheel sizes. Of course, those pursuits require a fair bit of fettling and expense anyway!

Guess we'll see how the experiment goes. The car can sit in traffic at 750 rpm with no issues and there's nothing to stop it dropping a gear if needs be so it'll probably be OK, just a bit slower off the mark.

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Three different gear boxes and four different diffs for my race car for different circuits.

Useless thread & a fucken stupid idea tbh, 10 pages of drivel with endless ideas & help all answered with negativity.

Who buys a 4.4 petrol then moans about saving fuel.

kevstar said:

Useless thread & a fucken stupid idea tbh, 10 pages of drivel with endless ideas & help all answered with negativity.

Who buys a 4.4 petrol then moans about saving fuel.

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I wasn't going to comment again here but given the stupidity of your comment I had to respond. If you actually read the 10 pages you would see the number of times I have stated that I have no issue with fuel saving.

So either you didn't read the 10 pages and you are just making up a story, or your ability to read is that of an 3 year old child. You have attacked me for something I don't care about.

This is exactly why I have responded with negativity to the "ideas and help". Because none of them are ideas suited for my problem or actual help for my needs.

Two people suggested I spend thousands on an LPG system to save fuel when I have said many times that I have no issue in saving fuel. One person suggested I buy a different car when I said in my initial comment to not suggest that I buy a different car.

I received multiple patronizing rude comments before I responded back in kind. If you don't like the 10 pages of "drivel" then maybe you want to talk to the people that came here with no interest in what I am doing with only the intention to insult me.

I have looked at this website for a year to get actual beneficial information. Yet I have only posted here once before because of all of this attacking and nasty comments from idiots that I have seen done to others.

Only one person gave me actual relevant information, after 10 pages of comments. Everybody else just decided what they thought was correct and then tried to force it down my throat without listening to what I was actually saying.

Thanks for doing that again. You have just reinforced my conclusions about this website.

You might want to learn from that conclusion rather than attacking me. I am not the first person who has given up using this site because of all the negativity.

Dumb advice rammed down my throat with a condescending tone followed by insults is not helping somebody. It is about the person giving the "advice" wanting to appear smart when actually they don't know anything.

We don't have the answer because I doubt anyone has ever done it.
You can update the Internet when you have done it with the outcome.

RRMaximus said:

I wasn't going to comment again here but given the stupidity of your comment I had to respond. If you actually read the 10 pages you would see the number of times I have stated that I have no issue with fuel saving.

So either you didn't read the 10 pages and you are just making up a story, or your ability to read is that of an 3 year old child. You have attacked me for something I don't care about.

This is exactly why I have responded with negativity to the "ideas and help". Because none of them are ideas suited for my problem or actual help for my needs.

Two people suggested I spend thousands on an LPG system to save fuel when I have said many times that I have no issue in saving fuel. One person suggested I buy a different car when I said in my initial comment to not suggest that I buy a different car.

I received multiple patronizing rude comments before I responded back in kind. If you don't like the 10 pages of "drivel" then maybe you want to talk to the people that came here with no interest in what I am doing with only the intention to insult me.

I have looked at this website for a year to get actual beneficial information. Yet I have only posted here once before because of all of this attacking and nasty comments from idiots that I have seen done to others.

Only one person gave me actual relevant information, after 10 pages of comments. Everybody else just decided what they thought was correct and then tried to force it down my throat without listening to what I was actually saying.

Thanks for doing that again. You have just reinforced my conclusions about this website.

You might want to learn from that conclusion rather than attacking me. I am not the first person who has given up using this site because of all the negativity.

Dumb advice rammed down my throat with a condescending tone followed by insults is not helping somebody. It is about the person giving the "advice" wanting to appear smart when actually they don't know anything.

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I was not going to either, but I feel I need to give you some important info, so will try and give it in a constructive manner.

If it can be done (we dont know or want to give wrong info). Do not decide to change 1, find out it takes alot longer than you think and say I will do the other 1 next weekend.

Your speedo and traction contol will get its refences from the wheel speeds which will all be equal, so fine.
But.
Your center diff in your NV225 transferbox is purely mechanical TB center diff, it will see different prop speeds, all it wants to do by design is get the 2 outputs back to the same speed, Although I think it has some torlerance other than just 50/50 but it needs to be close, this will mean what?
I dont know, but it wont be happy.

So as much as you think of me, which doesnt bother me. I would not like to see you trash a TB. So just have a think about it.

J

Anaconda said:

We don't have the answer because I doubt anyone has ever done it.
You can update the Internet when you have done it with the outcome.

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Actually my question was if it was a crazy idea, not if anyone had done it.

I received a lot of abuse without any actual substance, and some abuse based on data but the data had nothing to do with the conclusion that caused the abuse.

Essentially people who did not know the answer decided that the idea was stupid and attacked me for the idea.

But given that I received a lot of criticism that was not based in any actual factual truth I am confident that there is not some obvious underlying problem that I missed.

I also received the wonderful information that all of the part numbers are the same and the subframe is the same so the likelihood of the different diff fitting is very high.

On that basis it is not a crazy idea to buy one diff from eBay or a parts seller and see if it fits, and if it does then buy a second diff and try out my idea.

I also received excellent information from RRPhil on another form that my second gear would be close in ratio to the first gear that I would get with the modification.

This means that I can drive my car in second gear and see how it pulls away from the lights and see if that bothers me or not.

So my question was answered.

I never asked if anyone had done this before, I never asked if it was a guaranteed outcome, I just asked if it was a crazy idea.

If someone had told me that there is no way that the diffs would fit in my car then I would know that it was a crazy idea.

If someone had said that the engine management system would have issues with the different ratio then I would know that it was a crazy idea.

If someone had said something that I had not thought of that would make the idea not work then I would know that it was a crazy idea.

Instead what I received was people telling me that it was a crazy idea without any reason.

A lot of people fixated on fuel saving which I made clear many times was not my concern.

In summary people pointed out that the car will accelerate slower away from the lights which I already knew, and don't care about.

Some people said it might not shift into fifth gear but I explained that my car has a manually controllable automatic gearbox which can be forced into fifth gear.

Something that anyone commenting here should already be aware of, but none of them seemed to know anything about the gearbox in my car despite coming here to tell me how my gearbox would behave.

Some people said that on a steep hill I would have trouble pulling away in first gear, but I explained that my car has a low range gear and I could use that in those rare situations.

Again, something that anyone commenting here should already be aware of, but none of them seemed to know anything about the gearbox in my car despite coming here to tell me how my gearbox would behave (I am including the transfer case as part of the gearbox, where the low range gear resides).

I also explained that I am not towing and I will not have a lot of weight in the car so I do not need the maximum acceleration of a car that was designed to tow heavy weights.

Despite all of this, people told me that Range Rover knows best and there is no way that anyone is allowed to modify cars because nobody modifies cars anymore.

That is not a joke, someone actually made that comment and argued that point.

I was told to put an LPG system in it, change the tires, change the exhaust, buy a different car, take a ferry, etc etc etc.

A lot of people spoke about putting load on the engine when I never said that load on the engine was an issue for me.

I spoke only about wanting to drive at a lower RPM at a constant rate for a long period of time on a long trip to Portugal and back.

Basically people who thought it was a dumb idea because they didn't like it decided to attack me without any substance or understanding of my needs.

Eventually I responded to those insults, those ridiculous statements, and the patronizing comments because it was just such a ridiculous situation.

But I did get my answer and I did get to have a lot of laughs at the idiots here.

But the best bit was the people who said I would never find the answer to my question the next two posts after I had just explained that I found the answer to my question.

Anyway I wasn't going to comment more but this has been so funny that I just couldn't resist having another go.

Please continue to try to tell me that I didn't find the answer to my question that I have already had answered, because you didn't think of the answer, perhaps?

marjon said:

I was not going to either, but I feel I need to give you some important info, so will try and give it in a constructive manner.

If it can be done (we dont know or want to give wrong info). Do not decide to change 1, find out it takes alot longer than you think and say I will do the other 1 next weekend.

Your speedo and traction contol will get its refences from the wheel speeds which will all be equal, so fine.
But.
Your center diff in your NV225 transferbox is purely mechanical TB center diff, it will see different prop speeds, all it wants to do by design is get the 2 outputs back to the same speed, Although I think it has some torlerance other than just 50/50 but it needs to be close, this will mean what?
I dont know, but it wont be happy.

So as much as you think of me, which doesnt bother me. I would not like to see you trash a TB. So just have a think about it.

J

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I would only buy one diff at first to see if it fits, but I would definitely not drive around with two differentials with different ratios.

But given the information that all of the L322 have the same part numbers for the drivetrain and the same subframe I will probably buy two diffs at the same time, one for the front and one for the back, from the same seller.

Maybe I won't do this modificationat all.

What I certainly won't do is come here and ask anyone questions again about anything that isn't as vanilla as "how do I put oil in my car" because a lot of people here seem to get massively upset about someone making changes to their own car.

I probably haven't even expressed 50% of what I know about this situation, the research that I did before posting my question here, the previous experience I have restoring cars, knowledge of mechanics and physics.

But like I said many times this has been a ridiculously funny experience, and I would not have stayed here for so long if it wasn't for that significant amount of humor.

And because I stayed here that long I did get the answer to my question so I have to thank everybody for their ridiculous comments that allowed me to read the one comment here that was of great value.

Thank you everyone.

FYI, I stopped commenting about fuel once you made that clear. My other posts were about the energy required to keep the car moving.

In principle agreeing with your theory about less engine wear, but the oil pressure question at lower RPM is still open. If it's sufficient then yes the engine should wear less, but on an older engine it will probably drop at lower revs - hence wear.

The torque & joules required to move the car must be greater with the changed diff rsation (although I do not know by how much), which implies greater strain on the drive train. Someone with better calculator can do the maths.

It sounds like a QI "nobody knows", hence why I said do it & report back the benefits or otherwise. You can always re-sell the diffs after if it doesn't work for you.

kevstar said:

Useless thread & a fucken stupid idea tbh, 10 pages of drivel with endless ideas & help all answered with negativity.

Who buys a 4.4 petrol then moans about saving fuel.

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... except, as he constantly keeps telling us, he's not moaning about saving fuel, he just wants to save his engine from undue wear and tear, or summat.

Sadly he don't get what this forum is about.
He appears to have honestly hoped that someone on here will have already done what he is thinking of doing. and as none of us have but have given him much advice, he now thinks he's solved the problem himself and is going to get just one diff to try and see if it fits!

I tried to be polite to him and humour him a bit, that backfired, so I think I am just going to sit back and watch the fun.

RRMaximus said:

I would only buy one diff at first to see if it fits, but I would definitely not drive around with two differentials with different ratios.

But given the information that all of the L322 have the same part numbers for the drivetrain and the same subframe I will probably buy two diffs at the same time, one for the front and one for the back, from the same seller.

Maybe I won't do this modificationat all.

What I certainly won't do is come here and ask anyone questions again about anything that isn't as vanilla as "how do I put oil in my car" because a lot of people here seem to get massively upset about someone making changes to their own car.

I probably haven't even expressed 50% of what I know about this situation, the research that I did before posting my question here, the previous experience I have restoring cars, knowledge of mechanics and physics.

But like I said many times this has been a ridiculously funny experience, and I would not have stayed here for so long if it wasn't for that significant amount of humor.

And because I stayed here that long I did get the answer to my question so I have to thank everybody for their ridiculous comments that allowed me to read the one comment here that was of great value.

Thank you everyone.

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Well I will thank you for such a techncal responce for a technical concern.

You posted an attachment that said "they work great in the rear" or words to that affect

J

RRMaximus said:

I would only buy one diff at first to see if it fits, but I would definitely not drive around with two differentials with different ratios.

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But you cant take off a gear change motor and get to your motorfactors for a simple O ring, cos you need the car?

J

RRMaximus said:

I would only buy one diff at first to see if it fits, but I would definitely not drive around with two differentials with different ratios.

But given the information that all of the L322 have the same part numbers for the drivetrain and the same subframe I will probably buy two diffs at the same time, one for the front and one for the back, from the same seller.

Maybe I won't do this modificationat all.

What I certainly won't do is come here and ask anyone questions again about anything that isn't as vanilla as "how do I put oil in my car" because a lot of people here seem to get massively upset about someone making changes to their own car.

I probably haven't even expressed 50% of what I know about this situation, the research that I did before posting my question here, the previous experience I have restoring cars, knowledge of mechanics and physics.

But like I said many times this has been a ridiculously funny experience, and I would not have stayed here for so long if it wasn't for that significant amount of humor.

And because I stayed here that long I did get the answer to my question so I have to thank everybody for their ridiculous comments that allowed me to read the one comment here that was of great value.

Thank you everyone.

Click to expand...

With all your previous experience, knowledge of mechanics and physics I am very surprised you came on here to ask such a bunch of proles your question, which basically is "Am I crazy?"

I think we know that answer to that one now!

pwood999 said:

FYI, I stopped commenting about fuel once you made that clear. My other posts were about the energy required to keep the car moving.

In principle agreeing with your theory about less engine wear, but the oil pressure question at lower RPM is still open. If it's sufficient then yes the engine should wear less, but on an older engine it will probably drop at lower revs - hence wear.

The torque & joules required to move the car must be greater with the changed diff rsation (although I do not know by how much), which implies greater strain on the drive train. Someone with better calculator can do the maths.

It sounds like a QI "nobody knows", hence why I said do it & report back the benefits or otherwise. You can always re-sell the diffs after if it doesn't work for you.

Click to expand...

I agree with everything that you have said here, it is just that I am not worried about wear and tear on anything other than the engine due to running a higher RPM.

I am not concerned about the oil pressure because the engine will be running at an RPM that it is designed to run at.

I am not worried about more strain on the drive train because the drive train is designed to pull heavy trailers up hills and I will be doing nothing like that.

marjon said:

Well I will thank you for such a techncal responce for a technical concern.

You posted an attachment that said "they work great in the rear" or words to that affect

J

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I posted an attachment that told you where the 2.76 diffs come from, and the rest of what it said had nothing to do with my answer to your question, but you thought that it did?

That was an answer from Google and had nothing to do with what I plan to do.

You kept going on and on about where the 2.76 diffs come from and I was just showing you that you can get the answer from Google in about 10 seconds.

marjon said:

But you cant take off a gear change motor and get to your motorfactors for a simple O ring, cos you need the car?

J

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I do not need to fit the new diff to be able to determine that it will fit.

I can do that with my eyes and with measuring devices such as rulers.

Then when I can see that it will fit I can order the other one, and then I can fit both of them on the same day at the same time.

It is this kind of pathetic personal attack that I have decided to respond to on this site.

This kind of "gotcha" comment when in fact it just shows your stupidity.

Of course I do not need to fit the diff to see if it fits when I can just look at it.

I have even said that based on photos online it looks like it fits perfectly but I want to be sure before getting under the car to fit it.

Buying one and having it in my hands will give me that answer.

So please once again stop acting like you guys are geniuses and just admit that you are petty little nasty people looking for a way to criticize somebody not help them.

Stanleysteamer said:

With all your previous experience, knowledge of mechanics and physics I am very surprised you came on here to ask such a bunch of proles your question, which basically is "Am I crazy?"

I think we know that answer to that one now!

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Actually because of my previous experience and knowledge of mechanics and physics I knew that it would make sense to ask a Range Rover forum advice for doing something unusual on a Range Rover.

In fact someone without knowledge or experience might think that they could just do it and would not bother to ask for the advice of other people who may have experience in the particulars of a specific vehicle.

But when I came here instead of getting an answer to my question people insulted me suggesting I had no idea what I was doing, which is why I laughed at all of you.

Stanleysteamer said:

With all your previous experience, knowledge of mechanics and physics I am very surprised you came on here to ask such a bunch of proles your question, which basically is "Am I crazy?"

I think we know that answer to that one now!

Click to expand...

I think you have to admit that it is pretty funny when someone says that they have read the 10 pages of this issue and laughed at me for wanting a fuel efficient petrol V8 Range Rover after I had said many times that I don't care about fuel efficiency.

Stop making this poor git repeat himself,
Again,
Again,
Again,
Again...
Come guys, it's old news and nothing has come of this other than a little boy with his ball who wants to shout and does not appreciate real feedback from people with or without knowledge.
So give him a break and let him sit with his Iphone and observe.

Hmmm, a bit like a cat you wanted to give attention too and it just hisses back at you