multi layer shim head gaskets.......

Continuing the saga of my 97 300tdi non starter from another thread,......

....it appears that the fault that caused the engine to be unable to turn over is headgasket failure leaking water to pots.I fitted a metal multi-layer shim type gasket and it failed immediatly.Went to buy a new gasket and was offered another shim one.I declined and got an Elring.I was told that the shim gaskets were now being supplied as standard to suit the the new heads now in production.I replied that its not much good for an old head then,is it?The head in question was bought some three years ago but never really used.

Anyway,I managed to get my old dad to talk some sense (for once) and he told me that the multi layer shim gaskets were supplied for the V8 back in the late 70s and that he had never got one to work properly even with liberal use of red hermetite.His notion was that it was an american idea that was being forced upon us (everything is according to him!) and they didnt work with ally heads.

Well,Ive yet to find time to fit my elring gasket but Id be interested to hear what anyone else has to say about multi layer shim gaskets in general,if we are going to be lumbered with them,as I was told..Anyone??

mls gaskets require a perfectly flat head, with perfectly clean mating surfaces, otherwise they will not work properly. "normal" gaskets (the soft ones, made of composite type material/cardboard) have some tolerance for imperfections, hence they seal better.

the new K series gaskets are all mls (multi layered steel) and tbh i would prefer to fit a mls gasket, as they are less likely to go wrong (when fitted correctly)

were the head bolts tightened correctly? it only takes a misjudgment on the tightening to get it all wrong.

Nope,all done scrupulous mate. The only thing was the gasket had been on the shelf nearly 3 years and did appear a little twisted so may not have seated exactly. I know MLS gaskets in theory work best in an ideal world......but in the REAL world ?

Thanks for the reply though.This is a discussion that I feel is worth pushing as it may become very important in the near future.

i have used mls gaskets for years, mainly on the 8v dohc sierra's (same as an rs2k engine) and never had a problem with them, they were in fact superceded by ford from a composite gasket as they had a habit of blowing every 30-40k miles.

i don't think that a slight warping of the gasket would cause a problem, a proper bend and/or a crease would though.

we've supplied upwards of 60 mls k series gaskets, and only had one fail (in 3 years), and that was down to the mechanic not following the updated fitting instructions supplied with the kit.

it is possible that the newer heads are machined to a higher tolerance, and that the old, original ones aren't flat enough for them, especially if they have a couple of thou twist in them.

the composite gaskets are still available, and on a tdi, i would rather use one of those, as they give more when being fitted.

That would make sense being that this head was bought new nearly 3 years ago so would not be up to the current spec.The head was fitted to an engine for 3 weeks then taken off reverse order and torque and then shelved.Saying that,the gasket was bought from the same supplier some 3 months later,so one would expect it to match.I cant rule out fitting error but I have been doing this job on many vehicle for close on 30 years so I do know how to do it right.Maybe I just dont know how to do MLS right!

anyhow,theres an elring composite going on now.....but I do think its a subject worthy of note as others may have the same problem in the near future and be as stumped as me when the vehicle fails - I flat refused to believe that headgasket was the cause of my non runner as I had just scrupulously fitted a new one.

Also,the ford thing....funnily enough my old dad said it was all their fault during his yank-rant !

Also,the ford thing....funnily enough my old dad said it was all their fault during his yank-rant

Click to expand...

even though the DOHC was a european only engine used in transits, granada's and sierra's - was never used in the states - British design and build

i have 3 tdi and done the heads on all off them with the steel shim gaskets, as they where reccomended, and all total rubbish, everyone leaks either small amounts off oil, or water, fitted the elring gasket and never had a problem again.

Thank you spartan ! I was beginning to doubt my sanity there