Military 109

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Turboman said:
Having read the thread, I am not exactly sure what you are looking for, and I am not sure if you are either.

A few general points from someone who has bought, and sold, more Series than I can count over the years, the last one being a 2a in June this year.
For a start, I would ignore ebay, and dealers, altogether. Ebay is a well known source of stolen Land Rovers, bitsas, and trouble of other kinds.
Dealers always want to make a profit, and usually do this by concentrating on improving the cosmetic appearance of a vehicle, without worrying too much about originality or mechanics.
Also, I get the impression that you haven't owned or driven Land Rovers much before. So familiarise yourself with the subject by reading up on the history of the different vehicles, what the different variants did, and what was fitted to them.
And look at plenty of vehicles, both online, and in person. Test drive as many as you can, so you get a feel of what they should drive and sound like.

For starters, have a look at these. I have already filtered out the dealers, they are all private sales. There is a wide variety of prices and conditions. Ignore the one that is obviously a One Ten. Best of luck.

https://forsale.lro.com/land+rover/series+2/seller-private
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, I was trying to take all ebay/online ones with a pinch of salt as the sellers can make the pics say what they want it to. I think having read this thread I can see that over the 50 years a land rovers been around it can really become so many cars all at once. forsalelro does honestly seem like the best site I've come across so far, been looking daily for something to come up that seems like it'll work out! :)
 
JJ6 said:
I feel I haven’t gone about this in a great way, I jumped in with an idea/option without fully explaining it. So I'll just explain myself and what it is I was looking for baring in mind it is optimistic to say the least (but hey you gotta start somewhere)

1963-Land-Rover-SIIA-109-Front-940x636.jpg


My dream land rover is an S2/2A 109" with the inboard headlights and plain S2 dash (like the pic above but I bet we all wish we could have that). I have done quite a bit of looking into all the differences between all the versions (once you find one thing it seems to lead to about a million other questions) and I know I'm only scratching the surface with what there is to learn. I've seen quite a few in person and my friend had explained what to look for (he's had a very tidy 88" 60's S2 for ages) although he's said he's by no means an expert. My budget is relatively low in respect to the astronomical prices I've seen over the last months so, I was trying to find a way into this club without breaking my wallet, and military/military looking 109's tend to be what comes up (even though it's not my ideal car I'm keen to do the work and paint it up to look civilian).

I thought I'd ask about that initial military one really to see if it had any legs in terms of getting it looking like the pic above, which from the replies I've seen maybe isn't the best starting place.

So I guess what this whole post started with was trying to figure out which old Landy would be a good one to buy or maybe none are and I'll just keep looking and saving. I just thought I'd put it out to people that are realistic and know all the problems that will inevitably come up, sorry for the all over the place thread I've caused and this big essay, and I appreciate all the knowledge and insight so far :)

Cheers,

Johnny
Click to expand...
JJ6 said:
I feel I haven’t gone about this in a great way, I jumped in with an idea/option without fully explaining it. So I'll just explain myself and what it is I was looking for baring in mind it is optimistic to say the least (but hey you gotta start somewhere)

1963-Land-Rover-SIIA-109-Front-940x636.jpg


My dream land rover is an S2/2A 109" with the inboard headlights and plain S2 dash (like the pic above but I bet we all wish we could have that). I have done quite a bit of looking into all the differences between all the versions (once you find one thing it seems to lead to about a million other questions) and I know I'm only scratching the surface with what there is to learn. I've seen quite a few in person and my friend had explained what to look for (he's had a very tidy 88" 60's S2 for ages) although he's said he's by no means an expert. My budget is relatively low in respect to the astronomical prices I've seen over the last months so, I was trying to find a way into this club without breaking my wallet, and military/military looking 109's tend to be what comes up (even though it's not my ideal car I'm keen to do the work and paint it up to look civilian).

I thought I'd ask about that initial military one really to see if it had any legs in terms of getting it looking like the pic above, which from the replies I've seen maybe isn't the best starting place.

So I guess what this whole post started with was trying to figure out which old Landy would be a good one to buy or maybe none are and I'll just keep looking and saving. I just thought I'd put it out to people that are realistic and know all the problems that will inevitably come up, sorry for the all over the place thread I've caused and this big essay, and I appreciate all the knowledge and insight so far :)

Cheers,

Johnny
Click to expand...

What's the story behind the 109 in your photo, it doesn't look totally original but obviously restored. Is it on a military chassis it is sitting a bit high isn't it?
Also what value do you put on it?
 
JJ6 said:
Thanks for the advice, I was trying to take all ebay/online ones with a pinch of salt as the sellers can make the pics say what they want it to. I think having read this thread I can see that over the 50 years a land rovers been around it can really become so many cars all at once. forsalelro does honestly seem like the best site I've come across so far, been looking daily for something to come up that seems like it'll work out! :)
Click to expand...

Another very good thing to do is to join a club. There are lots, but Series 2 club would seem well suited. If you go along to club events, you will meet people who share your interest in the vehicles, they might let you drive theirs, or even have one for sale.

And be clear about what you intend to do with the vehicle. Do you want it as a daily drive, or as a hobby vehicle to take out on sunny Sundays, or do you want something you can take to Rallies?
Also, be aware that these are vehicles from an era when people tinkered with their cars every weekend, and that it is very hard to find anyone who can work on these now, and if you do, they will likely have a waiting list, and charge good money for their time.

There is a lot of very useful information on this site, and on some others, including this one.

http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/
 
Did a review of the series on e-bay last night. While there are some genuine ones, often the unrestored ones or barn finds, a lot were very dodgy bitsas with some seriously misleading desriptions.
 
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Rodeo Joe said:
What's the story behind the 109 in your photo, it doesn't look totally original but obviously restored. Is it on a military chassis it is sitting a bit high isn't it?
Also what value do you put on it?
Click to expand...

This one is an interesting one, I found it online a couple of years ago when I first "discovered" series and thought wow they're pretty cool and a bit different to all the defenders you see driving around. The website is american so they do things a little differently but what's quite good is most sales have a lot of photos so you can start to learn what parts are what and see a bit more of the detail in them. That landy there is on a military chassis and the value you'll cry when you find out.

This is the link below, I'd take a guess at the price and then click on it :eek:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-land-rover-series-2a-109-pickup/
 
Turboman said:
Another very good thing to do is to join a club. There are lots, but Series 2 club would seem well suited. If you go along to club events, you will meet people who share your interest in the vehicles, they might let you drive theirs, or even have one for sale.

And be clear about what you intend to do with the vehicle. Do you want it as a daily drive, or as a hobby vehicle to take out on sunny Sundays, or do you want something you can take to Rallies?
Also, be aware that these are vehicles from an era when people tinkered with their cars every weekend, and that it is very hard to find anyone who can work on these now, and if you do, they will likely have a waiting list, and charge good money for their time.

There is a lot of very useful information on this site, and on some others, including this one.

http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/
Click to expand...

I'll do some research into the clubs that's a good idea. My intention was to make it smart and reliable so that it could go on 150 mile round trip to the occasional show like Peterborough for example, but then really just be a weekend driver. I think I'd walk before I could run and wait until I had done a lot of work on it before going the long distances though as it's not end of the world if I didn't make it to a show as there are always others.

The glencoyne website is a good read, I like the honesty about it all which is good for my current position. The restoration page I've read though quite a few times and I am quite paranoid about the whole "start a project don't finish it" problem that happens a lot. I think maybe I got a bit desperate and after seeing so many for sale all in the same state accepted this is just what you get nowadays, and ignored a few things glencoyne wrote e.g. fixing the side tub panels. (One of those 109's I posted had quite a cracked panel just by the wheel arch)
 
It is an amazing resto-mod but mostly resto. I'm not sure we will hit thise prices, there are a lot more series around in the UK, but I have just increased my agreed value from 5k to 10k after scaning the for sale ads and seeing how poor or expsensive a lot of the series were. I paid around £1200 in 2013 for an ex-mil LWB with an MOT and drove it home. It has since need a re-wire, engine and gear box rebuilds, chassis welding and every bit of the brakes replaced (ie it was bargain....). But I don't mind becuse I now know all the bits work and I've seen people pay premuim prces and still end up haveing to do lots of work. A cheap vehicle like mine was hiding nothing (well its was actually, 1 cross-ply!!). As the price goes up the risk of a nasty suprise goes up too. That $67k was supported by all those photos - a gaurentee of no suprises..
 
rob1miles said:
It is an amazing resto-mod but mostly resto. I'm not sure we will hit thise prices, there are a lot more series around in the UK, but I have just increased my agreed value from 5k to 10k after scaning the for sale ads and seeing how poor or expsensive a lot of the series were. I paid around £1200 in 2013 for an ex-mil LWB with an MOT and drove it home. It has since need a re-wire, engine and gear box rebuilds, chassis welding and every bit of the brakes replaced (ie it was bargain....). But I don't mind becuse I now know all the bits work and I've seen people pay premuim prces and still end up haveing to do lots of work. A cheap vehicle like mine was hiding nothing (well its was actually, 1 cross-ply!!). As the price goes up the risk of a nasty suprise goes up too. That $67k was supported by all those photos - a gaurentee of no suprises..
Click to expand...

I do see the logic of that if you're in the right frame of mind about it, i.e. this is going to need work done and I won't fool myself. In starting with not much and all the surprises already laid out in front of you the gamble isn't quite as big, and then yeah as you said in knowing you have to do the work when the work gets done at least you know it's to your standards and not the words about standards of an owner 2 before you :)
 
JJ6 said:
I'll do some research into the clubs that's a good idea. My intention was to make it smart and reliable so that it could go on 150 mile round trip to the occasional show like Peterborough for example, but then really just be a weekend driver. I think I'd walk before I could run and wait until I had done a lot of work on it before going the long distances though as it's not end of the world if I didn't make it to a show as there are always others.

The glencoyne website is a good read, I like the honesty about it all which is good for my current position. The restoration page I've read though quite a few times and I am quite paranoid about the whole "start a project don't finish it" problem that happens a lot. I think maybe I got a bit desperate and after seeing so many for sale all in the same state accepted this is just what you get nowadays, and ignored a few things glencoyne wrote e.g. fixing the side tub panels. (One of those 109's I posted had quite a cracked panel just by the wheel arch)
Click to expand...

I like Glencoyne. He is straight up about the fact that old Land Rovers are not for everyone, and is not looking for work, as he is already booked up months in advance. The engine and transmission numbers that he gives are very helpful for finding out what parts have been bolted on to a vehicle in the 40 to 50 years since it was built.

As you say, the main thing is to buy well. Even a good example will develop minor faults, and if you have to throw in fixing major things as well, you may well find yourself in the "years off the road rebuild" scenario which is what most new owners want to avoid.
 
rob1miles said:
Interesting, its on "110 running gear" which it can't have been 31 years ago. Coils and 110 axles plus engine and transmission, could fail the DVLA points test for tax free and MOT exemption under "major mods".
It is just and S3 body on a 110? Add doesn't have much to say about that.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't, and the owner didn't see the point of my asking for more photos of his defender :D
 
Turboman said:
I think the chap wants an S2 or 2a. And rightly so in my opinion. Plastic dash and unnecessary gubbins is horrible. Headlamps in the middle look better too.
Click to expand...
I think the problem is that its not an S3, look at the chassis pics! I think this could be very hard to sell, pity as it could be a great 110.
 
I've got a couple of questions when it comes to what to look for on the chassis of series Landys. I've read and watched as much as possible in what to look for when checking the chassis, and most say to obviously look for corrosion. That's pretty self explanatory but being new the thing I'm unsure of is just how much corrosion you can get away with?

I know in some cases people make patchwork quilts out of the chassis as it's cheaper and a whole lot easier than a chassis swap, I feel that's temporary and prolonging the inevitable but if that's what you can afford at the time go with it I spose. I've got a photos from the last 2 I looked at and a third I just found on the internet as an example.

chassis 1.png

This one had some pitting on all of the chassis, but then as you can see the gearbox crossmember was quite thin and rusty at either end. It was a bit difficult to tell how good or bad it was as was just covered in a thin layer of dried mud.

chassis 2.png

This group of photos has two different Landys in it. The pics on the left are one landy, and the pic on the right is the one from the internet (ignore that it has a military spring hangers).

My thoughts on the left landy is that its pretty severe and been painted over to look a lot better than it is and I avoided this one. (just seemed like bad news, lots of conflicting parts, years and info from the owner)

The one on the right I think in my unknowledgeable position looks better? I've only got that photo of it but let's say the whole chassis looks in a similar condition to that rear portion. Is that what a 'good looking' chassis or better looking chassis should look like?

Cheers
 
Personally I don't mind if a chassis is welded and plated as long as when you hit it with a hammer bloody great holes don't appear.
A chassis can be rusted but solid , but it would need to be treated and painted ASAP.
They will all have surface rust unless they are galvanised. As to where they might rust it could be anywhere at all!
 
Get familar with what the chassis should look like, one of those in the pictures is missing half an outrigger! Some parts such as front outriggers are cheap (£25 each) and about £100 to get welded on so no big deal, but rust in the main chassis rails can be a big problem. Dumb irons can be changed as can the rear crossmember and many you look at will already have had this work done. On my 1970 chassis some outriggers are being changed fo the second time! The condition of chassis varies a lot, some that have been in use a lot and leaked oil are in really good condion, some that have been parked on grass and near dust and not recoverable. Take overalls and a torch and get underneath.
 
"...one of those in the pictures is missing half an outrigger..."
He hasn't even cut it straight! Looks like a dodge to get it through an MOT - if its not there it can't be checked! That would make me want to check the rest of the vehicle very carefully to see what other dodges are on it. Note the body stiffener has been 'relocated' to the bottom of the tub.
 
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