Making the same mistake twice?!?

Hi All

Long time no log-on here (sorry!). We’re looking at returning to the world of Disco ownership as, although our old one hated us, we loved it!!

After the trial with the old 200TDi we had a couple of years ago (that several of you were so good at providing help, advice and even parts for) we’re now looking at a M-reg 3.9 manual V8 showing 80k or thereabouts. It’s a 300 ”shape” model and is an ES with most of the bells and whistles.

I think after the 200TDi saga I have a pretty fair idea of what to look for on a Disco generally and recognise that petrol models are more likely to be well treated and less likely to be used as hacks than diesels.

However I’m not familiar with the Rover V8 engine or the 300 shape Disco’s and would appreciate a steer on a couple of points:

1. When I first saw this car, I was only able to give it literally a two minute inspection as I was in a rush. The engine was started for me and it sounded like a bearing in an ancillary was failing (ie PAS pump or similar). Is there something else this might be? What’s to worry about on these engines?

2. There are a couple of small scabs on wheel arches and the steel work in door openings, but the owner said if I go back at the weekend he’ll put it on a 4-post lift so I can poke around underneath which implies he’s confident about the state of the body and chassis. Am I right in thinking rust is much less of an issue on 300 “shape” Disco’s?

3. I expect there to be a few none functional leccy windows and the like - anything of more concern on these?

4. The economy on a V8 is undoubtedly going to be crippling. I’m comfortable I can install a kit myself if no special skills/tools are necessary and don’t mind being patient on E-Bay - I also know the installation must be inspected and then certified by an accredited LPG installer. On a DIY basis how hard and what are the likely costs to LPG’ing the car?

5. Tax - is there any truth the the rumour that older big 4x4’s will be hit with the £400 top rate road fund tax next year?

Cheers,

Malcolm

1) Could be Pas pump thats going or an alternator bearing. The V8 engines so long as they have had regular oil changes are prety much bullet proof (I have a 1990 V8 that still goes like a gud un when I can afford to put the Juice in it) and cam shaft lobes wear which causes lower mpg but on a regularly serviced engine will probably be unoticable.

2) Rust is still the killer of Discos and dont be told otherwise! Check chassis to body mounts, check inner wings, sills inner / outer, bottom of door posts, rear arches in the door opening if its a 5 door and the dreaded boot floor. If they are that confident that the disco is solid ask them to undo the 5 screws that hold the plastic boot carpet strip in place and look under the carpet. If they say no either walk away or go round the boot on your knees listening for crunches.

3) Lazy door locks and leccy windows are common. Check for air bag warning lights and if it has air con check it works... same goes for abs (If it has it test it) If the aircon doesn't blow cold and you are told "It just needs a regas mate" dont beleive it. The gas has left the system for a reason and the main reason for this is perished O-rings resulting in the gas escaping. Worst case is their is a hole in the condensor rad behind the grill or the compressor its self. Brand new condensor rad £400, Brand new Compressor £400.

4) Crippling is an understatement for running these motors dont expect to see anything more than 18mpg. 18mpg is if you are cruising at 60 with the wind behind you. It is difficult to state the cost involved in purchacing the LPG system as there are so many types of tanks such as underfloor, in boot types so this will vary the price of your kit (Under floor tanks being the most expensive in my experience.)

5) I have heard about the old car tax hike but there is nothing stated for April of next year but after that who knows???

Lastly and most importantly if it doesn't feel right then just walk away. There are lots of Discos out there to choose from.

Bet ya going to look for a Jap 4X4 now
Good luck and may the force be with you

thought the tax hike was only back to 2001 vehicles thats when the emmisions were first put on log books

Tax is only for post 2001 vehicles and the £400 tax band is only For the big petrol guzzlers. So Buy a pre 2001 TDI or TD5.

redhand said:

Tax is only for post 2001 vehicles and the £400 tax band is only For the big petrol guzzlers. So Buy a pre 2001 TDI or TD5.

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They can't go back before 2001 as there are no data on emissions, as redhand says. I understand there WILL be two tax bands based on engine size though.

It has been mentioned that as CO2 data is incomplete for pre 2001 vehicles they are thinking about changing the upto 1.5 £X and above 1.5 £X to a three bracket system upto 1.5, 1.5 - 2.2 - 2.2 and over. It has nothing to do with CO2 data at all they are just basing it on the bigger engine higher emmisions however there is no plan to change it in April of next year but as I said before... after April next year who knows??? This would not only affect the discos but the post 1973 series (2.25) and the defenders too if they did at some point change it. I wouldn't put anything past this Govement at the moment. I know what the ruling is on the historic vehicle tax exempt points system but if they screw around with the older car tax bracket ill get the outriggers to mount a defender or series shell to my 300tdi disco chassis and run it with the 1972 plates as a hybrid or coil sprung series. Seems only fair if they think that £400 tax on an old car worth (at best) £1000 is ok.

Rough calculations below

5000 Miles worth of diesel at 30mpg avrage £975
1 years insurance approx £200
Possible new road tax 1 year £400
Total cost per year before repairs / servicing / Tyres etc £1575

Example of Cit Xantia 1.9Td

5000 Miles worth of diesel at 50mpg average £585
1 Years insurance approx £200
If possible new tax stays the same for 1.5-2.2 £190
Total cost per year before repairs / servicing / Tyres etc £975

Coil sprung 1972 300tdi series 3

5000 Miles worth of diesel at 30mpg avrage £975
1 years Clasic car insurance approx £100
Tax exempt £0
Total cost per year before repairs / servicing / Tyres etc £1075


All tax prices used above are not based on fact but are based on the assumption that this govement is out to screw as many people over as possible regardless as to the trouble it will cause people who need the 7 seats or tow large weights on a regular basis. Dont say the Goverment will not, can not, should not or its not fair as they will do what ever they please.... they stoped me and millions of others from having a fag in my local in April of last year so whats to stop them taking a bit more joy away?

Disco Inferno said:

ill get the outriggers to mount a defender or series shell to my 300tdi disco chassis and run it with the 1972 plates as a hybrid or coil sprung series. Seems only fair if they think that £400 tax on an old car worth (at best) £1000 is ok.

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Only problem with that is it won't be tax exempt. Because the 1st time you take it for an MOT and they enter the chassis number and it doesn't relate to what the logbook says it should be. the computer will refuse to MOT it.

To keep tax exempt status the vehicle has to keep most of it's main components. there is a point system you get so many points for the chassis so many for the engine, so many for the axles. etc etc. Once the points are totted up the total number decides whether or not it is still tax exempt. Your's won't be. DVLA is well aware of all the scams people are pulling to avoid payig road tax.

Why wont the chassis number match the DVLA data? You inform them it has a 2.5diesel engine now and has been converted to coil springs. If they say the chassis dont look right the response is "What do you want it to look like? It has been converted from leafs to springs" Disco axels run the same size diffs (different ratios) so the axels are the same (as far as they are concerned) but with a disc conversion. It is a modernised hestoric vehicle.

The V5 for my tax exempt series states the following

HISTORIC VEHICLE
LANDROVER
GREEN
PETROL

That is all of the vehicle details listed. No Chassis or engine number no wheel base size. So as long as you take a green landrover (either 88" or 109") with a petrol engine for an MOT they cannot refuse to MOT it even if it has a 4.6 fuel injected Rangerover engine in it. You can even show the DVLA adverts from places such as Rockymountain that sell vented disc conversions for em.

I know exactly what your saying Red but Ive had enough, as im sure every one else has had enough of being taxed on my wages and then taxed on almost everything I buy and taxed to drive the vehicle I own on poorly maintained roads using fuel which is heavily taxed and when I get home I park it on my driveway infront of my house which I have to pay £130 per month council tax. Absolutly F***ING had enough.

Each component you modify from the original makers spec has a points system. if you convert to coils thats a modification. If you put a different engine in thats another modification. Brake conversion is another mod etc etc. each modification has a number of points allocated to it. To keep historic status you have to have less than 8 points on the vehicle. Changing the chassis gets you 10 points (IIRC) that's your tax exemption out of the window.

I know, that there are loads of people out there driving Defenders on tax exempt plates but DVLA are really clamping down on it and have started ordering MOT stations not to test tax exempt vehicles if they have been heavily modified and don't have an SVA certificate. Legally if you modify your chassis in any way then you must submit it for an SVA test.

Fair point. So even if you have a legit series 3 and do a disc conversion you are removing points? didn't realise that.. thought so long as the axels wern't changed it was ok to change the hubs. Reet then I have a Galvo chassis which is to manufactures spec and not a modification as it is a replacement (no points lost) it has 3 leaf rocky paras and pro comp 9000 +2" gas shocks (No points lost) body shell will be origional (no points lost) Steering will be left the same as I can do without PAS (no points lost) all good so far.


Whats the points for the following

1) Transplant 2.5 TDI
2) R380 Gbox
3) Discs front
4) Discs rear
5) Changing the diffs for the disco ones to suit Gbox (Wouldnt have thought you would have to tell them as the are straight swap with diffent ratio)

You wouldn't need anything else for a good tow car.

Im slowly calming down and seeing a little sense

Thanks guys - useful info there.

Points discussion is irksome given I've thought in that misty eyed way that you do about getting a late '60s Series One Rover P6 and fitting a LT77 with a 3.9 Range Rover lump and enjoying tax free motoring with modern performance...

Malcolm

Okay gents - here's a related question about LPG kits.

I've just called up Tinley Tech and been quoted the following prices for a full single point closed-loop LPG kit:

£505 + VAT & delivery (boot mounted tank)
£635 + VAT & delivery (twin undersill tanks, secured with straps)
£695 + VAT & delivery (twin undersill tanks, secured with brackets)

Would you say those prices are competitive at the moment (delivery is circa £25)?

I was also told the expense of a sequential LPG system (an extra £300+) isn't necessary on a Disco of that age. Reasons seemed to make sense (ECU's not that clever so there's no advantage to the extra complexity).

Cheers,

Malcolm

Hi All, thought I'd update.

Haven't bought it but been for a damn good poke around. Be grateful if anyone with knowledge can tell me if anything rings alarm bells...

- A few stone chips on wheel arch lips need attending to before the aluminium goes crumbly
- It is a bit of a pain to start from cold without a good churn of the starter and prod of throttle (airflow meter?),
- The ABS light doesn't come on with the ignition (I'm assuming a sneaky missing warning bulb is masking a failed sensor - similar toa common issue on Rover 800's given the number of shared peripheral components?)
- The central locking on the front passenger door is sticky - it works but only after some "exercise".
- One of the brake pipes (NSR) is looking quite corroded.
- The front section of the exhaust is shot (explains the noises I had initially thought might be a pulley or pump) but the rest is okay.
- The rear wiper doesn't work (although the rear washer does).
- The roof rails seem bent down (they look otherwise okay); I'm sure it's clouted a low ceiling/garage roof, but gently as there's no other damage.
- The boot floor looks solid from underneath, but if you lift the carpet in the boot there are clear signs of bubbling around the edges of the boot floor panel - nothing serious yet, but probably too far gone to sensibly repair...suppose bodge it for now with Kurust and Waxoyl - replacement will be required; but not for a couple of years I reckon.
- Aside from a rust patch on the OSR arch hidden by the rear door when closed (which looks to be surface only) the structure seems good and the carpets are all dry and don't smell musty.

Good things include a straight body, fair condition leather (no rips or tears but needs "feeding"), good paintwork, sweet sounding engine that pulls like the proverbial and feels right for 88k miles, working aircon (took a while to get cold initally, but the car hasn't moved for a month or more - was good and cold though after a couple of mins), manual box seems fine, other than the rear wiper and the dodgy CDL, all other accesories work fine.

Worries aside from the above:

- The ride felt a bit harder and/or crashier than my memory of our 200TDi (might be me imagining as the springs/shocks/bushes looked okay).
- I forgot to check the Hi/Lo transfer box...skoolboy error #1!!!
- I also forgot to look at the paperwork...skoolboy error #2!!!
- Can't remember if the SRS light came on as I was too busy concentrating on the ABS...skoolboy error #3!!!

Got him to agree in principal to £1300 plus my wife's old car, which I my gut says is fair (unless any of the above will be dead expensive to fix?).

Cheers,

Malcolm

Get on ebay & autotrader that's about £300 to a £1000 more than you can get one for especially as it doesn't sound like it's been looked after that well.

Get on ebay & autotrader that's about £300 to a £1000 more than you can get one for especially as it doesn't sound like it's been looked after that well.

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Finally having internet at home again makes this easier than sneaking a peak whilst at work!! Yep, have done so and see your point - that's far from good value for a mid 90's Disco...

Thanks for the steer...my wife's thinking about a Zafira now

Malcolm