LPG multipoint to BLOS conversion ..whoops!

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Leewot

Leewot

Member
Posts
22
Location
Near Derby
D1 3.9v8 Efi
well this weekend I decided that the engine bay looked like a dirty greasy oily bowl of spaghetti..
So it needs tidying up and clearing of cloutter.

My Zavolli multipoint LPG system hasn't worked properly since some numpty decided to tweak the ECU software 'map' and forgot to save & back-up the original settings ( guilty I'm that numpty) - in any case it's far too complicated and there's too much to go wrong with it for my liking.

So I decided I'm hoping to strip out the multipoint and replace it with something simpler - I understand good old SU carburettors - so I'm thinking BLOS is the way forwards?

So far I've found the following problems
1) I disconnected the Zavolli ECU and the car wouldn't start on petrol - so I re-connected it ,
2) started it and disconnected the wires in turn at their other ends.. If I disconnect the multi-plug at the LPG MATRIX - runs fine
3) disconnect the multi plug that appears to be spliced additionally between the Zavolli ECU to the original Landy petrol injector loom and the revs drop very low and it almost stalls... So I've reconnected them for both rails.
3) disconnecting the power & return to the Zavolli ECU makes no difference to the way it runs
4) ive disconnected wires that ere connected from Zavoli ECU from the LPG solenoid at the vaporiser made no difference to the way the engine runs.
5) I removed the wires from gas flow sensor in the gas feed between the vaporiser and the matrix - no problem
6) I removed the gas pipes between the vaporiser and the injector matrix car still runs..But occasional misfire
Does this mean it's sucking air in that's cocking up the mix?
ALSO - known complication :
I have an A&R Amp2 ignition boosters that had a black connected to the COIL & blue wire connected to the LPG solenoid ( at the vaporiser) - no idea what to do with those ..??

My thoughts are:
A) If I remove the injector matrix(s) and cap off the injectors ( maybe?) can I then use the gas feed from the vaporiser with a BLOS mixer?
B) why can I just remove ALL the existing Zavolli ECU to engine wiring without engine revs dropping so low?

Any ideas greatly appreciated - I'm sure these things are far more complex than they need to be.
Cheers
 
The Zavoli system works fine if properly set up, but you need to understand how the Zavoli ECU works with the existing injection system before you start playing around with it.

Ours has worked since 2005 and apart from a gas valve block refurb and a software update, it has been great.

zavoli general install manual mir.pdf
Zavoli LPG front end install p38 RR.pdf

These can be found in this directory:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Zavoli/Zavoli LPG front end install p38 RR.pdf

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Zavoli/zavoli general install manual mir.pdf

Have a look through that lot, it might help you.

I think I have the firmware for the 8-cylinder installation, but you'd need a laptop and the connecting lead to get into the ECU.

Peter
 
Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

A f***ing mixer system, destroy it, burn it, crush it. Phone up the Royal Navy and ask them to nuke it.

I went to see a car, mixer system installed, saw the system, told them in no uncertain terms what I thought and they had wasted my trip.

With EFI cars you NEED SGI at a minimum to run properly.

SGI is also perfectly DIYable if you are competent.
 
MJI said:
Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

A f***ing mixer system, destroy it, burn it, crush it. Phone up the Royal Navy and ask them to nuke it.

I went to see a car, mixer system installed, saw the system, told them in no uncertain terms what I thought and they had wasted my trip.

With EFI cars you NEED SGI at a minimum to run properly.

SGI is also perfectly DIYable if you are competent.
Click to expand...
I run a single point open loop mixer ring in a 3.9efi and once set up it runs fine and returns 18l per 100km with ample power so i have to disagree im afraid with the NEED comment, it may be preferable but it isnt an absolute.
 
DiscoPol said:
I run a single point open loop mixer ring in a 3.9efi and once set up it runs fine and returns 18l per 100km with ample power so i have to disagree im afraid with the NEED comment, it may be preferable but it isnt an absolute.
Click to expand...

I still would not trust it nor consider buying one on a EFI engine, the fact SGI was not installed is enough for me to wonder about the quality of the rest of the install, SGI has now been available for around 20 years.

I have seen the effects of a back fire, I have seen bad professional installs, good DIY installs.

I ran a DIY installed system on a previous car for 8 years, with excellent results, biggish V6, best ever 27mpg, worst ever 11mpg (towing hilly and head wind).

I only ended up with a Diesel as that was all I could find in the age / condiditon/ distance rang, and the fact TD5 is one of the few I would consider.
 
listerdiesel said:
The Zavoli system works fine if properly set up, but you need to understand how the Zavoli ECU works with the existing injection system before you start playing around with it.

Ours has worked since 2005 and apart from a gas valve block refurb and a software update, it has been great.

zavoli general install manual mir.pdf
Zavoli LPG front end install p38 RR.pdf

These can be found in this directory:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Zavoli/Zavoli LPG front end install p38 RR.pdf

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Zavoli/zavoli general install manual mir.pdf

Have a look through that lot, it might help you.

I think I have the firmware for the 8-cylinder installation, but you'd need a laptop and the connecting lead to get into the ECU.

Peter
Click to expand...


Peter,
Thank you for your reply -
I've decided - based on your comments and some of the other 'helpful' comments on the thread that I'm going to simply tidy up the installation ( re-route the cables etc neatly ) but effectively return all the installed connections to exactly as it was before ..

I have the software/connection & laptop - that's where I originally went wrong - it wasn't running quite right - it tended to get very hot running LPG and just didn't have the same grunt ( I'd say it was feeling about 80%) - and so I thought I'd give the firmware ECU map a tweak- but like an idiot I didn't save the original map. And then it wouldn't run on LPG above tick-over
Anyway that was months ago- the car has been running fine on petrol

And so then when I'm happy that all the connections are restored as they should be and it looks more orderly so I can understand what does what more clearly , then I'll try and find a proper firmware - or failing that a DECENT technician that understands LPG
 
wil2813 said:
you got life insurace ?? just a thought.
Click to expand...

Not especially.. As I'm competent with gas installation and domestic electrical..its auto electronics that I'm not familiar with (yet)
So knowing that the solenoid valves ( both th one at the vaporiser and the one at the tank) remains closed unless energised I know there's no gas flowing.
Anyway having said that - I'm essentially going to put it back how I found it.
 
listerdiesel said:
The Zavoli system works fine if properly set up, but you need to understand how the Zavoli ECU works with the existing injection system before you start playing around with it.

Ours has worked since 2005 and apart from a gas valve block refurb and a software update, it has been great.

zavoli general install manual mir.pdf
Zavoli LPG front end install p38 RR.pdf

These can be found in this directory:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Zavoli/Zavoli LPG front end install p38 RR.pdf

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Zavoli/zavoli general install manual mir.pdf

Have a look through that lot, it might help you.

I think I have the firmware for the 8-cylinder installation, but you'd need a laptop and the connecting lead to get into the ECU.

Peter
Click to expand...

Peter,
I can't get those links to open?
 
Yes, but the principals are the same and I think the ECU is as well.

I'll check the software versions I have on file and also see if there is anything for the earlier engine.

Peter
 
Injector systems work by following the petrol signals and altering them by a percentage, start by setting to a 1 on 1 and monitor the petrol injector times.

What you are aiming for is similar petrol injection times when on gas as to that on petrol. Suggest start at idle and see how much adjustment is required. Then a constant 30, 40, 60, then full bore.

Power should be above 90% of petrol power, and really should be 97% or so, turbo cars can go over 100%.

A couple of hours driving around on petrol and gas will give you good average timings for the injectors.
 
MJI said:
Injector systems work by following the petrol signals and altering them by a percentage, start by setting to a 1 on 1 and monitor the petrol injector times.

What you are aiming for is similar petrol injection times when on gas as to that on petrol. Suggest start at idle and see how much adjustment is required. Then a constant 30, 40, 60, then full bore.

Power should be above 90% of petrol power, and really should be 97% or so, turbo cars can go over 100%.

A couple of hours driving around on petrol and gas will give you good average timings for the injectors.
Click to expand...

MJI,
Thanks, but at the moment I'm out my depth on this so once I've got the wiring back in place I'm going to try and find someone to physically take the car to who knows what they are doing.
Just need to find that person.
 
Most problems come with wiring errors or software changes.

We've done our own from scratch, but we are electronics engineers anyway and we used that install manual for one of our D2's.

I've put in a request to our LPG guy in Kent to ask out early D1 V8 install info.

Peter
 
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