Low Rev Throttle Response, at a loss now!

tweedandbriar said:

Ha! I have only known it as a 'Clutch Switch', not an anti surge circuit, oh well, one less thing to check!

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It's officially called "surge damping":

sierrafery said:

It's officially called "surge damping":

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Ah...there ya go, thanks - MAP sensor arriving today (apparently).

One thing I meant to ask, the chaps who did the re-map had suggested trying a standard factory chip in the EU, which they are sending. The say the fitted a 'cage' so it will merely clip in. Do you think thats worth trying, putting everything back to stock? I am erring on the side of caution and will probably investigate everything else before doing that - just a thought?

You can swap the chips without probs it's a socket fitted just work with care as to not pull the socket's soldering, looks like this, if you dont have the special tool to grab the chip lever it out carefully with thin screwdriver all around to remove it then push the replacement straight and fully in, it has a positioning slot... you'll figure it out

sierrafery said:

You can swap the chips without probs it's a socket fitted just work with care as to not pull the socket's soldering, looks like this, if you dont have the special tool to grab the chip lever it out carefully with thin screwdriver all around to remove it then push the replacement straight and fully in, it has a positioning slot... you'll figure it out

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Thanks, would I need to make any other changes to Wastegate for example or just start her up and see?

tweedandbriar said:

Thanks, would I need to make any other changes to Wastegate for example or just start her up and see?

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just tighten it untill it overboosts then back one if no overboost we'll speak again, eventually make sure it's not stuck open it should move with a certain force

sierrafery said:

just tighten it untill it overboosts then back one if no overboost we'll speak again, eventually make sure it's not stuck open it should move with a certain force

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Already checked and its good so far as I can see.

One more question so I know I am testing the boost correctly, at what speed/rpm would I need to be before I can expect it to overboost? Would it overboost as relatively low speeds/rpm's? I live in a very rural area and opportunities to give her full throttle are limited.

tweedandbriar said:

Ha! I have only known it as a 'Clutch Switch', not an anti surge circuit, oh well, one less thing to check!

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Mine is disconnected, seems to drive just fine. Tempted to plug it back in see if anything happens.

tweedandbriar said:

at what speed/rpm would I need to be before I can expect it to overboost? Would it overboost as relatively low speeds/rpm's?

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It's not about rpm or speed in your case as it's about just gaining a bit more boost cos your's seem low, the overboost protection is set to 1.42 bar caculated by the ECU so once the boost exceeds that regardless of speed it kicks in unless the wastegate is stuck closed then on a well fuelled vehicle it kicks in at around 2500rpm as no boost is "wasted". In tour case the wastegate should be adjusted as to open as late as possible but to not let the boost exceed that 1.42 bar at maximum load. On defenders the best way is to let the wastegate softer and fit a manual boost controller between the turbo outlet and wastegate valve, then the boost curve gets smoother as it opens on the MBC's setting while on direct boost actuation the more tight the wastegate is the more "agressive" it gets so it can be jerky on fast throttle activity if you see what i mean... that's why they fitted the wastegate modulator on D2s

you can watch live turbo boost withnanocom on instrument mode and floor it hard uphill in 3'rd to above 3000rpm see where it gets cos then you should get up to at least 1.35bar(1.4 better) if it's well set or overboost if it's too tight

tweedandbriar said:

Ha! I have only known it as a 'Clutch Switch', not an anti surge circuit, oh well, one less thing to check!

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Anaconda said:

Mine is disconnected, seems to drive just fine. Tempted to plug it back in see if anything happens.

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Then as long as there's no surge on gear change means that your's is underfuelled a bit like when the clutch is depressed all the time unless it was remapped accordingly

sierrafery said:

Then as long as there's no surge on gear change means that your's is underfuelled a bit like when the clutch is depressed all the time unless it was remapped accordingly

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It hasn't been mapped that I do know. I might plug it in and see if anything noticeable happens sometime.

sierrafery said:

You can swap the chips without probs....

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Stock Chip went in fine, result was a much less angry drive and although ZERO bunny hopping, there was a palpable difference in power going up hill. Though I'm not suggesting it was bad, just very different and needing to drop a gear into 2nd rather than powering up the hill in 3rd (also, bear in mind I am talking about a quick, steep climb of no more than 1/4 of a mile, if that. Much smoother acceleration and generally more in line with what I am after.

Hoping to get out later to check the boost as suggested - weather permitting, its going to pour down here later, not good if I am going to be in and out of it.

As a matter of interest I did two recordings one with MAF connected and the other without. What are your thoughts, it certainly felt better with MAF disconnected - isn't there a MAF bypass we can do, is it worth it or even relevant to me?

Nano MAF Connected

Nano MAF Disconnected

Just a thought, but do you know any local with a td5 that would let you have a quick shot to reset your 'normal'?

boguing said:

Just a thought, but do you know any local with a td5 that would let you have a quick shot to reset your 'normal'?

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I did think that, but then again, they won't always know what has been done prior to them getting theirs.

I am thinking, as mine had been 'mapped' by the owner before the chap got it off (and he didn't know any details himself) that map might have been contributing to it not being close to my 'normal'. Now its back to stock, and as boring as it may sound, it feels much closer to what I would be happy with - does that make sense?

I've got some fairly challenging slopes around here and I can usually get up them in third. In a 2.25 petrol SIII. Pretty sure that the only time I had to use second on those hills in the 110 19J was when the pipe from turbo to fuel pump split. Maybe you've got steeper hills? What gear would you use in a modern hatchback?

boguing said:

What gear would you use in a modern hatchback?

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Not sure, I guess that contingent on the engine, weight etc...but at a guess not third!

tweedandbriar said:

Stock Chip went in fine, result was a much less angry drive and although ZERO bunny hopping, there was a palpable difference in power going up hill. Though I'm not suggesting it was bad, just very different and needing to drop a gear into 2nd rather than powering up the hill in 3rd (also, bear in mind I am talking about a quick, steep climb of no more than 1/4 of a mile, if that. Much smoother acceleration and generally more in line with what I am after.

Hoping to get out later to check the boost as suggested - weather permitting, its going to pour down here later, not good if I am going to be in and out of it.

As a matter of interest I did two recordings one with MAP connected and the other without. What are your thoughts, it certainly felt better with MAP disconnected - isn't there a MAP bypass we can do, is it worth it or even relevant to me?

Nano MAP Connected

Nano MAP Disconnected

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You better figure out first exactly what's what on your vehice cos it's about MAF connected/disconnected not MAP cos with MAP disconnected it woud run like sh*t and about the MAF i already explained

sierrafery said:

You better figure out first exactly what's what on your vehice cos it's about MAF connected/disconnected not MAP cos with MAP disconnected it woud run like sh*t and about the MAF i already explained

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Agghhh!!! I did of course mean MAF!! Sorry! I'll edit the post just in case someone takes it literally!

tweedandbriar said:

I am thinking, as mine had been 'mapped' by the owner before the chap got it off (and he didn't know any details himself) that map might have been contributing to it not being close to my 'normal'.

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It's possible that the PO bought a generic remapped chip on ebay and those are rudimentary injector duration maps ... if you want it good get a proper remap from a reputable tuner which can work with limiters to addapt it to your needs

sierrafery said:

It's possible that the PO bought a generic remapped chip on ebay and those are rudimentary injector duration maps ... if you want it good get a proper remap from a reputable tuner which can work with limiters to addapt it to your needs

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I had already sent my ECU to Empire Tuning after outlining the symptoms and what I was hoping for. He reported the changes he made were to: "Throttle Demand, AFR Limiter, Torque Limiter, Boost Limiter, PW Tables". This was inline with my request for a much less aggressive drive and to address the 'Bunny hopping' already mentioned. He subsequently suggested replacing the mapped chip with the the factory one now in the vehicle. Thats all the info I have I am afraid.

If with that map made well by empire is still not good there is a problem with the engine or ancillaries: injectors, FPR, turbo or it's hoses , etc.. cos the management is all working well based on the log