Loud bang, grinding noise , no drive. Gearbox , transfer box or driveshaft ?

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badlander said:
Hi folks, I just thought I'd remove the RH driveshaft to see what's going on there, I removed the two bolts that hold the hub to the suspension, lowered the hub and pulled on the ird end of the gearbox to my surprise the cv joint (I think that's what it's called ) pulled straight out of the cup which stayed attached to the ird. Is this what's supposed to happen ? I thought the driveshaft was all one piece with the cup ? I started the engine, put it in gear and the cup turns (though it seems a bit wobbly) has the driveshaft snapped or am I barking up the wrong tree ?View attachment 304456
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Wrong tree I'm afraid, this is all perfectly normal. If you think about what happens when your wheel goes up and down then there must be some in and out movement in the drive shaft.
If you watch the video again you'll see the mechanic removing the drive shafts.
 
badlander said:
pulled on the ird end of the gearbox
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Sorry, should have read, "pulled on the ird end of the driveshaft"
Alibro said:
Wrong tree I'm afraid, this is all perfectly normal. If you think about what happens when your wheel goes up and down then there must be some in and out movement in the drive shaft.
If you watch the video again you'll see the mechanic removing the drive shafts.
Click to expand...
I watched the video and when he did it the CV joint came out with the cup. I also read another thread on here that described the same problem with the cup wobbling about, it was suggested that this is because the bearing in the ird had gone and the ird needed replacing/repairing.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/offside-drive-shaft.350327/
 
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One other question, I put it all back together so it can at least roll onto the tow truck. What I don't understand is why there is no drive if the cup turns ? is it because the CV joint has failed ? Please forgive my ignorance...
 
When he pulled out the drive shaft he did not pull the shaft itself but knocked out the cup. The only thing holding the drive shaft to the cup is the rubber cover so you cannot just pull the shaft. The bearings have to be able to move in and out of the cup (not all the way out) when the suspension moves.
I normally use a long chisel to lever out the cup.

The splines turning the cup may be enough to turn it with no load but not on load but you won't know for certain until the cup is out. BTW it can be a real struggle to get the cup out as it is held by a spring clip.

If the inner CV joint was badly worn you would know about it. It would have been very noisy.
 
Alibro said:
When he pulled out the drive shaft he did not pull the shaft itself but knocked out the cup. The only thing holding the drive shaft to the cup is the rubber cover so you cannot just pull the shaft. The bearings have to be able to move in and out of the cup (not all the way out) when the suspension moves.
I normally use a long chisel to lever out the cup.

The splines turning the cup may be enough to turn it with no load but not on load but you won't know for certain until the cup is out. BTW it can be a real struggle to get the cup out as it is held by a spring clip.
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I did actually try with a two foot crowbar, but I didn't manage to get it out, but thanks for the explanation. I am going to pick up a second-hand IRD tomorrow and it's going to a garage on Wednesday, I just don't have the tools to attempt it myself....
 
badlander said:
I did actually try with a two foot crowbar, but I didn't manage to get it out, but thanks for the explanation. I am going to pick up a second-hand IRD tomorrow and it's going to a garage on Wednesday, I just don't have the tools to attempt it myself....
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Normally it requires a sharp tap in just the right spot and if your lucky it pops out easily. It is awkward to get at though and can be a pain.
 
badlander said:
One other question, I put it all back together so it can at least roll onto the tow truck. What I don't understand is why there is no drive if the cup turns ? is it because the CV joint has failed ? Please forgive my ignorance...
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Going back to the description of the diff, it provides drive to the wheel with least resistance.

If you take away the wheel, hub and most of the drive shaft, just leaving the cup, then there is very little weight and resistance there.

This might indicate that the diff is actually functioning, but that the splines to the other wheel have gone as there would be more resistance through the IRD back to the other drive shaft.
 
GrumpyGel said:
Going back to the description of the diff, it provides drive to the wheel with least resistance.

If you take away the wheel, hub and most of the drive shaft, just leaving the cup, then there is very little weight and resistance there.

This might indicate that the diff is actually functioning, but that the splines to the other wheel have gone as there would be more resistance through the IRD back to the other drive shaft.
Click to expand...
I've sort of concluded that the bearing has had it on the side I removed , mostly because the cup wobbles about so much, it doesn't seem right to me, it was actually one of your old posts that convinced me. Maybe I'm wrong, I just hope it isn't going to cost a fortune, the IRD cost me about $140 including delivery from Moscow (1000 km away) The garage is an automatic transmission specialist, they charge $18 an hour, but they will send a towtruck for free. The way things are here at the moment , making money is difficult , impossible for me without a car....
 
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The new (second-hand) IRD arrived today. To my untrained eye it looks more or less OK, everything turns smoothly as it should, the cup definitely doesn't flop about like mine does. There is a bit of oil on the outside of it and it looks like someone has been inside it at some point (RTV silicone around round where the two halves of the case join ) , but it is 20 years old , so not surprising I suppose. Looking at it out of the car it seems a lot less mysterious than it looks fitted....
Maybe a stupid question, but, does it have to be filled separately with oil ? I'm sure the mechanic will know but I don't. Thanks for all the help and hopefully the next time I post will be to report that it's fitted and back on the road again...
 
badlander said:
The new (second-hand) IRD arrived today. To my untrained eye it looks more or less OK, everything turns smoothly as it should, the cup definitely doesn't flop about like mine does. There is a bit of oil on the outside of it and it looks like someone has been inside it at some point (RTV silicone around round where the two halves of the case join ) , but it is 20 years old , so not surprising I suppose. Looking at it out of the car it seems a lot less mysterious than it looks fitted....
Maybe a stupid question, but, does it have to be filled separately with oil ? I'm sure the mechanic will know but I don't. Thanks for all the help and hopefully the next time I post will be to report that it's fitted and back on the road again...
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Its only a stupid question, if it hasn't already been answered.

Please refer to post #32.
 
badlander said:
Sorry, it's a lot of information to digest, I just looked back. I assume it isn't actual "soft cheese " ? ;-)
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No, the metal is as soft as soft cheese. The fill and drain plugs are made of low quality aluminium, so are easily damaged if the wrong socket is used to remove or tighten them. A 6 side socket is a must, and hand tools only to be used to turn the socket, no power tools.
 
UPDATE: Hi folks, I got the IRD fitted and all has been well for about a week , until today, I had to pull out of a junction a bit sharpish and as I did something went bang followed by a nasty kind of knocking sound, I stopped and had a look underneath and this is what I found. It appears I have lost a bolt and a rubber bushing from some sort of tie bar?mount. The noise whas caused by it rubbing on the driveshaft cup. Can anybody tell me what the part I need is called ? It's dark outside now but it doesn't look too complicated from what I can see.
 

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badlander said:
UPDATE: Hi folks, I got the IRD fitted and all has been well for about a week , until today, I had to pull out of a junction a bit sharpish and as I did something went bang followed by a nasty kind of knocking sound, I stopped and had a look underneath and this is what I found. It appears I have lost a bolt and a rubber bushing from some sort of tie bar?mount. The noise whas caused by it rubbing on the driveshaft cup. Can anybody tell me what the part I need is called ? It's dark outside now but it doesn't look too complicated from what I can see.
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It's the lower tie bar that stops the engine rotating.
Never seen one fail like that before.
 
badlander said:
Thanks, I don't suppose anyone has a part number ? I'm having trouble finding it by name in Russian/ Is it all one piece or can the bushing be got separately ? Any help very much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Scratch that , I've found it KKH102680.​

Prices go from almost $300 for original. to Under $5, (won't be buying original) Thanks for the help.
 
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