Lightweight S3 with Ford Banana Diesel - which Engine would you swop too?

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Bit of research but sounds like it's one of these with a fabulous 52 BHP !

1985-02-01
The Ford 2.5 Litre High Speed Direct Injection Diesel Engine-Its Performance and Future Possibilities 850262
The FORD 2.5 Litre DI Engine entered volume production in January 1984, as the World's first high speed naturally aspirated direct injection diesel. Producing 52 KW at 4000 RPM the engine achieves a 15% fuel saving over indirect engines of similar size and rating. The direct injection engine is inherently less thermally active than pre-chamber engines and this, together with other design features, provides a power unit with extended durability for the medium van market.

Which compares to the 2.25 Petrol - with 74 BHP
Despite its utilitarian origins, the 2.25-litre petrol is a quiet, smooth-running engine, and this enabled Rover to fit it to their P4 saloon car as the Rover 80.

Note the use of the words "quite and smooth" yep...

Rover V8 comes in at 155 BHP and can go up too 200+ easily through Cams and Tuning.
 
bluebossa said:
Yep, aware - what does the top speed move too? I'll dig around on the conversion kits, much easier and cheaper to get hold of by the looks of it...

Definitely make it a different vehicle and an interesting project too...
Click to expand...
Top speed is really a function of gearing. And if you have enough power/rpm to pull it (which a V8 should).

A good 2.25p Series should run at 65mph+ if needed. And happily cruise at 55-60mph.

If you want more speed or lower cruising rpm, you can run different diffs (3.54:1), fit an Overdrive or even high ratio high range gears. Taller tyres can help too.

Most 3.5's are very old. And lots are low compression, which means 120-135hp. I'd probably look for a 3.9, 4.0 or 4.6 tbh. EFI shouldn't be that bad to get up and running or just run carbs.

Steve Parker used to do a conversion kit, but I can only see Tdi ones listed now.

As for engines.

The 2.25p is an ok to adequate engine. Smooth, but under powered really. I'd only go this route if you really are looking for originality (i.e. resale value). Otherwise they just aren't all that great to drive and they really enjoy drink.

The 200 and 300 Tdi can be fitted fairly easily. The 300 a bit more work. These are good engines and offer good performance and economy. But they are very crude, unrefined and noisy. Even when factory fitted in a 90. I've had one in a Series and it served a purpose and allowed me to fuel it and do lots of miles in it. But I'd not do it again. The refinement or lack there of really was the deal breaker.

In theory the 2.0 litre T-Series (used in the Discovery Mpi, Italian army 90's and lots of Rover cars) will fit. A very nice DOHC 2.0 litre petrol with more power than a Tdi and more torque than a 2.25p and still a "Rover" engine. But finding the engines is a bit hard these days. But would make for a nice, peppy refined vehicle. People have even fitted the T-Series Turbo from the 820/620 Turbo.

And there are a million non LR engines you could look at. But for me the RV8 is the one to go for. And it'll add so much character to the vehicle too.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Top speed is really a function of gearing. And if you have enough power/rpm to pull it (which a V8 should).

A good 2.25p Series should run at 65mph+ if needed. And happily cruise at 55-60mph.

If you want more speed or lower cruising rpm, you can run different diffs (3.54:1), fit an Overdrive or even high ratio high range gears. Taller tyres can help too.

Most 3.5's are very old. And lots are low compression, which means 120-135hp. I'd probably look for a 3.9, 4.0 or 4.6 tbh. EFI shouldn't be that bad to get up and running or just run carbs.

Steve Parker used to do a conversion kit, but I can only see Tdi ones listed now.

As for engines.

The 2.25p is an ok to adequate engine. Smooth, but under powered really. I'd only go this route if you really are looking for originality (i.e. resale value). Otherwise they just aren't all that great to drive and they really enjoy drink.

The 200 and 300 Tdi can be fitted fairly easily. The 300 a bit more work. These are good engines and offer good performance and economy. But they are very crude, unrefined and noisy. Even when factory fitted in a 90. I've had one in a Series and it served a purpose and allowed me to fuel it and do lots of miles in it. But I'd not do it again. The refinement or lack there of really was the deal breaker.

In theory the 2.0 litre T-Series (used in the Discovery Mpi, Italian army 90's and lots of Rover cars) will fit. A very nice DOHC 2.0 litre petrol with more power than a Tdi and more torque than a 2.25p and still a "Rover" engine. But finding the engines is a bit hard these days. But would make for a nice, peppy refined vehicle. People have even fitted the T-Series Turbo from the 820/620 Turbo.

And there are a million non LR engines you could look at. But for me the RV8 is the one to go for. And it'll add so much character to the vehicle too.
Click to expand...

Thanks Buddy that's a great summary for the non initiated like me... I've been scouring the Interweb looking at V8 prices since posting and they seem to come at circa £500 to £700 in known running condition... would just need to find the conversion kit but warming to that idea all day long.

Until then the suggestion made to fit Soundproofing might be a good interim step while I gather parts and thoughts... might be a good winter project and like you say would add lots of Character.. If anyone on here knows where you buy the conversion kits today and which Engine/Age to make it as straightforward as possible that would be great.
Carbs for sure... don't fancy all the Electronics of FI Engines...

Also looked at V8 Discos as Donors... so this post has been really helpful so far thanks to all forum members for your guidance/wisdom and knowledge... perfect...
 
My RRC had the same engine fitted when I bought it, a bit noisy and a bit underpowered but was extremely good on fuel. From memory was 70hp or so but used to pull a loaded cattle box fine. Mine was dated at around 94 by the starter motor when it needed replacing
 
I'd imagine that old Ferd diesel is better than the Diesel LR equivalent in those lightweights.

Gutless whores the lot of 'em ;) I'd imagine a 4bt cummins would fit real nice and give good power/economy if you can find one.. ;)
 
bluebossa said:
Bit of research but sounds like it's one of these with a fabulous 52 BHP !

1985-02-01
The Ford 2.5 Litre High Speed Direct Injection Diesel Engine-Its Performance and Future Possibilities 850262
The FORD 2.5 Litre DI Engine entered volume production in January 1984, as the World's first high speed naturally aspirated direct injection diesel. Producing 52 KW at 4000 RPM the engine achieves a 15% fuel saving over indirect engines of similar size and rating. The direct injection engine is inherently less thermally active than pre-chamber engines and this, together with other design features, provides a power unit with extended durability for the medium van market.

Which compares to the 2.25 Petrol - with 74 BHP
Despite its utilitarian origins, the 2.25-litre petrol is a quiet, smooth-running engine, and this enabled Rover to fit it to their P4 saloon car as the Rover 80.

Note the use of the words "quite and smooth" yep...

Rover V8 comes in at 155 BHP and can go up too 200+ easily through Cams and Tuning.
Click to expand...
KW and HP aren't the same thing.
 
Kev12 said:
My RRC had the same engine fitted when I bought it, a bit noisy and a bit underpowered but was extremely good on fuel. From memory was 70hp or so but used to pull a loaded cattle box fine. Mine was dated at around 94 by the starter motor when it needed replacing
Click to expand...

Thanks Kev - yep that fits... its gutless for sure, and very noisy! Thanks maybe dates it... I'll try and find a number once the temps cool off!
 
bluebossa said:
Makes sense... the text above says "Economy" was the aim which fits what other posters have said... maybe 30 MPG.
Click to expand...
More or less the aim with all diesels.

In most parts of the world, where fuel has always been less expensive, nobody even thinks about diesels except for big lorries and boats.

I don't know what mpg those will achieve. I do know that my Perkins 4/203 engined Series would do 30 mpg all day long, and that was uphill, downhill, on the flat, or towing.
 
Turboman said:
More or less the aim with all diesels.

In most parts of the world, where fuel has always been less expensive, nobody even thinks about diesels except for big lorries and boats.

I don't know what mpg those will achieve. I do know that my Perkins 4/203 engined Series would do 30 mpg all day long, and that was uphill, downhill, on the flat, or towing.
Click to expand...

Nice... 30mpg makes sense... I'm going to order some soundproofing to shut it up!
Any ideas on best soundproofing or just search on EBay?

On another note it's got 1 out of 4 rear half shafts from a Civi landie...

It also came with Big Tonka Toy wheels which I fitted on at the weekend - thoughts?

You should be able to see the Rear Nearside hub Civi Landie style! - what parts do I need to replace and get back to spec? Easy job?

Rear Hub.jpg



Tonka Side On.jpg
 
bluebossa said:
Nice... 30mpg makes sense... I'm going to order some soundproofing to shut it up!
Any ideas on best soundproofing or just search on EBay?

On another note it's got 1 out of 4 rear half shafts from a Civi landie...

It also came with Big Tonka Toy wheels which I fitted on at the weekend - thoughts?

You should be able to see the Rear Nearside hub Civi Landie style! - what parts do I need to replace and get back to spec? Easy job?

View attachment 269679


View attachment 269680
Click to expand...
I used Dynamat, I think. Ordered full sheets off the net, and cut them down to the right sizes for underbonnet and footwells.
I also put a sheet under the rubber mat in the rear. It isn't inexpensive, but it does work well.
If you don't want to spend that much, there are cheaper alternatives, like camping mat.

Sorry, not got a clue about military parts, I only ever have civilian vehicles.

You might get a bit more performance out of the existing engine with a full service, tappets, fuel filters, change oil in air filter, etc.

You will also get a bit extra by going back to standard size tyres and wheels. The more weight you have in the drive train, the harder it is for the engine to spin it up to speed.
 
Turboman said:
I used Dynamat, I think. Ordered full sheets off the net, and cut them down to the right sizes for underbonnet and footwells.
I also put a sheet under the rubber mat in the rear. It isn't inexpensive, but it does work well.
If you don't want to spend that much, there are cheaper alternatives, like camping mat.

Sorry, not got a clue about military parts, I only ever have civilian vehicles.

You might get a bit more performance out of the existing engine with a full service, tappets, fuel filters, change oil in air filter, etc.

You will also get a bit extra by going back to standard size tyres and wheels. The more weight you have in the drive train, the harder it is for the engine to spin it up to speed.
Click to expand...

Surfing for Dynamat now...
Engine has a had a service... another poster recommended a Bosch Injector Pump to give it a boost... wheels and tyres, yep agreed... just playing around really, though the tonka wheels are comfier...
 
bluebossa said:
Surfing for Dynamat now...
Engine has a had a service... another poster recommended a Bosch Injector Pump to give it a boost... wheels and tyres, yep agreed... just playing around really, though the tonka wheels are comfier...
Click to expand...
Why is a Bosch pump going to be better on a Ford engine than a Ford pump?
 
bluebossa said:
Surfing for Dynamat now...
Engine has a had a service... another poster recommended a Bosch Injector Pump to give it a boost... wheels and tyres, yep agreed... just playing around really, though the tonka wheels are comfier...
Click to expand...

Think you will find that is a Bosch VE pump, common fit on just about everything at one time or another.
 
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