Legendary blocking problem at LR Disco 4

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volvol

Member
Posts
13
Hello everyone

I am new on the LR side (before I ride an volvo XC90 and now an Ford Expedition)
But since my friend is buying an LR Dico 4 build in 2012 with SDV6 engine we also have some problems with that.

So I‘d like to discribe our problem and would be soooo happy, if someone could help with his experience:

Start…
Cylinderhead Cover bank 2 was broken so we dissassebleing and istalling 2 new once.
That was a good opportunity to also change the wasted hydros at the intake side
After assembling we learnes -> engine in not able to tourn over by hand (close to OT from booth sides)
We checked all cylinders and intake hole properly with a camera -> looking great
The blocking seems to be in the crankshaft, because we removed also the timing belt, set the camsafts to „free“
Engine is blocking furthermore matallicaly

Next…
We removed the front transmission gear and oil pan
No damage in the crankshaft, no visible blockings, no damage damage of shells
All looks fine… but engine is already blocking in the same position

Any Idea from the experts here?

Thx a lot and nice greets… Matthias
 
Last edited:
volvol said:
Hello everyone

I am new on the LR side (before I ride an volvo XC90 and now an Ford Expedition)
But since my friend is buying an LR Dico 4 build in 2012 with SDV6 engine we also have some problems with that.

So I‘d like to discribe our problem and would be soooo happy, if someone could help with his experience:

Start…
Cylinderhead Cover bank 2 was broken so we dissassebleing and istalling 2 new once.
That was a good opportunity to also change the wasted hydros at the intake side
After assembling we learnes -> engine in not able to tourn over by hand (close to OT from booth sides)
We checked all cylinders and intake hole properly with a camera -> looking great
The blocking seems to be in the crankshaft, because we removed also the timing belt, set the camsafts to „free“
Engine is blocking furthermore matallicaly

Next…
We removed the front transmission gear and oil pan
No damage in the crankshaft, no visible blockings, no damage damage of shells
All looks fine… but engine is already blocking in the same position

Any Idea from the experts here?

Thx a lot and nice greets… Matthias
Click to expand...

Crankshaft looks ok. We dissasembled the oilpan, so that we have a proper look into the housing.
What I am wondering is, if we adjust zylinder 1 for OT and prepare the same at the camsaft side, normally I have to be able to turn the crankshaft over at least OT.

Following does happening:

Zylinder 1 goes over OT and the engine blocks when zylinder 1 is going to move down (about 2mm after OT)
Zylinder 4 comes near to OT and before reaching OT engine blocks…

I never have such a trouble in the past

Greetings Matthias
 
So you replaced the rocker covers/intake manifolds, and whilst there decided to do the cambelts, and now the engine will not rotate?
Did you use any locking tools?

If you are trying to roate the crankshaft with the cambelt off then yes the engine/crankshaft will stop/lock as one of the pistons will hit one of the open valves.
 
lynall said:
So you replaced the rocker covers/intake manifolds, and whilst there decided to do the cambelts, and now the engine will not rotate?
Did you use any locking tools?

If you are trying to roate the crankshaft with the cambelt off then yes the engine/crankshaft will stop/lock as one of the pistons will hit one of the open valves.
Click to expand...
Hi lynall

Yes, correct. Because half of the work is done if the intake manifolds are dissassembled. So it is easy
Change the hydros as well.

We trying to rotate the crankshaft with timebelt is on. So that „normally“ the engine has to run as normal.
But it doesnt work. Engine is blocking with timebelt/without timebelt/without camshaft intake side.
Always the same :vb-groan2:

Also we tested to move the cams when the the crankshaft ist blocked. Bouth cams are free, and able to rotate in cylinder 1+4 OT position.
 
volvol said:
Hi lynall

Yes, correct. Because half of the work is done if the intake manifolds are dissassembled. So it is easy
Change the hydros as well.

We trying to rotate the crankshaft with timebelt is on. So that „normally“ the engine has to run as normal.
But it doesnt work. Engine is blocking with timebelt/without timebelt/without camshaft intake side.
Always the same :vb-groan2:

Also we tested to move the cams when the the crankshaft ist blocked. Bouth cams are free, and able to rotate in cylinder 1+4 OT position.
Click to expand...
Have you checked the camshaft to crankshaft timing?

Is the hpfp causing an issue?

By hydros I assume you mean hydraulic tappets? is so has one of them jacked up and locked?
 
lynall said:
Have you checked the camshaft to crankshaft timing?

Is the hpfp causing an issue?

By hydros I assume you mean hydraulic tappets? is so has one of them jacked up and locked?
Click to expand...
Hey…

Yes I did…
The timing was not changed, belt not removed before, and there was no issue with the engine before starting the repair.

What does hpfp causing means?

And, yes I mean the tappets.
You are right, I also have the concern, that one of the new tappets makes this problem.

Therefore I remove the intake cams on back 1 and 2 to set the valves free.

But nothing was changed. Engine blocks as before…😕
 
volvol said:
Hey…

Yes I did…
The timing was not changed, belt not removed before, and there was no issue with the engine before starting the repair.

What does hpfp causing means?

And, yes I mean the tappets.
You are right, I also have the concern, that one of the new tappets makes this problem.

Therefore I remove the intake cams on back 1 and 2 to set the valves free.

But nothing was changed. Engine blocks as before…😕
Click to expand...
I was thinking the hpfp (high pressure fuel pump) which is belt driven off the right hand cylinder head (viewed from the front of the car) might be locking up, hence the reason the engine stops at the same point every time, this is belt driven.

Though this is really bit of a stab in the dark as the slightest thing will stop an engine being turned manually!

I have also read quite a bit recently of the camshaft drive pulleys breaking up causing mayhem.

I assume you have given the front crank damper/pulley a prod/lever with a bar to see if the crank is at fault as suggested by @biketeacherdave above? Though as I guess you are turning the engine over with a bar and socket you would notice if the pulley had excess movement.
 
lynall said:
I was thinking the hpfp (high pressure fuel pump) which is belt driven off the right hand cylinder head (viewed from the front of the car) might be locking up, hence the reason the engine stops at the same point every time, this is belt driven.

Though this is really bit of a stab in the dark as the slightest thing will stop an engine being turned manually!

I have also read quite a bit recently of the camshaft drive pulleys breaking up causing mayhem.

I assume you have given the front crank damper/pulley a prod/lever with a bar to see if the crank is at fault as suggested by @biketeacherdave above? Though as I guess you are turning the engine over with a bar and socket you would notice if the pulley had excess movement.
Click to expand...
Hi lyn
Good idea. That is what I also would assume.
So wie deleted the timingbelt to Test it.
Timing belt goes through the cams to the hpfp… now its Not longer connected to the crank, but Engine already is blocking at the Same Position.
 
volvol said:
Hi lyn
Good idea. That is what I also would assume.
So wie deleted the timingbelt to Test it.
Timing belt goes through the cams to the hpfp… now its Not longer connected to the crank, but Engine already is blocking at the Same Position.
Click to expand...
Then something is touching the pistons, and that can really only be a valve unless you dropped something down one of the intakes by mistake?
You might have to remove the manifolds and go right through the job again to see/find what has gone wrong.
 
lynall said:
Then something is touching the pistons, and that can really only be a valve unless you dropped something down one of the intakes by mistake?
You might have to remove the manifolds and go right through the job again to see/find what has gone wrong.
Click to expand...
Yes, normally you are right.
But here is nothing normal…

Today we checked the compression-it’s ok
Today we checked valves-no defects

Only if we removed the rod-shells from cylinder 1, so that the rod has about 2mm space, I can turn over the engine.😳
 
volvol said:
Yes, normally you are right.
But here is nothing normal…

Today we checked the compression-it’s ok
Today we checked valves-no defects

Only if we removed the rod-shells from cylinder 1, so that the rod has about 2mm space, I can turn over the engine.😳
Click to expand...
Cylinder heads off it is then.
Have you boroscoped in that cylinder to see if there is anything touching or some foreign object on top of piston?
 
lynall said:
Cylinder heads off it is then.
Have you boroscoped in that cylinder to see if there is anything touching or some foreign object on top of piston?
Click to expand...
Yes we did

No particles in the Zylinder, no damage of pistons… nothing
 
Good afternoon all

Yesterday evening we found the failure.
I will describe it, to avoid that anyone else will have the same torture;

Into cylinder 1 we found after checking 3rd time a small black painted particle.
This metal/or something else part has blocked the cylinder (known head/piston contact)
What was very difficult to analyse, the color is black, the particle was stamped from the piston along the cylinder wall into the head.
These pressed part was not really visible, and was clamped in the corner between cylinder wall and head.

After 2weeks analysis a lot of work and disassembly… I would summarize:

Look next time really really really carefully, with a highly precision endoscope.

Thx a lot to all of you guys for supporting.
Appreciate really your great help!

Best greetings Matthias
 
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