Land rover freelander or toyota land cruiser

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> Defender, Disco, who knows? You'll spend every moment of ownership with
> the vehicle laid up in a garage to have yet another fault fixed. If you
> own either, budget at least £2K per annum for repair bills, and expect
> to spend a lot of time off work.
>
> --
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>
> -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759


"By far the best proof is experience"

Sir Francis Bacon 1603


 
Steve Firth composed the following;:
> hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
> [Land Cruiser]
>
>> They are on a different scale. More appropriate to compare with Defender
>> or Disco I would have thought.

>
> Easy, Land Cruiser moderately good on-road, very good off-road.


Agreed, especially when compared with a Freelander.

> Defender, Disco, who knows? You'll spend every moment of ownership with
> the vehicle laid up in a garage to have yet another fault fixed. If you
> own either, budget at least £2K per annum for repair bills, and expect
> to spend a lot of time off work.


I disagree. In my case (Landrover Discovery '97 300 Tdi) Only failures a
CV joint and a rear exhhaust .. but as we off-road a lot these sorts of
things are expected .. oh, and all the corner plastics have been pulled off
a few times, but that, again, is par for an off-roader.

However, I do my own servicing and don't run it into the ground (well, I do
literally) between services.

--
The Caretaker.
A balanced argument.
www.4x4prejudice.org

 
Hirsty's <[email protected]> wrote:

> "By far the best proof is experience"


Yes, that was why I eventually gave up Land Rover products. They are not
as good off-road as the advocates claim, they are truly ****e on road,
and they are expensive to maintain and fix.

Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year. Any Land Rover with
servicing costs that low?

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
 


> Yes, that was why I eventually gave up Land Rover products. They are not
> as good off-road as the advocates claim, they are truly ****e on road,
> and they are expensive to maintain and fix.


Well I hate to disagree however in my experience, they are excellent off
road, bush, sand, srub, mud and as I try to drive in a fashion reflecting
the vehicle I find them excellent on the road
>
> Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year. Any Land Rover with
> servicing costs that low?


I service my own, oil, filters x2 a year £130 ( but then I get the best I
can ); therafter I sort the axles diff transfer box etc. Thing is when I
bought it I realized the cost for a complex machine and accepted it.
Ferraris are great but the wrong car for a public road and need tuning every
night.
If you are getting service bills then ask the garage what they put in the
car and do they do it all.

>
> --
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>
> -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759


"My idea of an agreeable person is one who agrees with me"

Benjamin Disraeli :))



 

What about the freelander dont you like ? Must admit havent drive the
wifes much but its a fun little car very quick handles well and a
reall giggle I find ? I had the merc ML450 and the freelander is much
better both on and off road



On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:44:19 +0000, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)
wrote:

>waker171986 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was
>> better the land rover freelander or the toyota land cruiser i said the
>> land rover but he thought otherwise is there any one who can help me on
>> this one?

>
>You're wrong, HTH. In fact you're wrong for just about any value of Land
>Rover, let alone the godawful on-roader that is the Freelander.


 
Steve Firth composed the following;:
> Hirsty's <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "By far the best proof is experience"

>
> Yes, that was why I eventually gave up Land Rover products. They are not
> as good off-road as the advocates claim, they are truly ****e on road,
> and they are expensive to maintain and fix.
>
> Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year. Any Land Rover with
> servicing costs that low?


Probably double that, for all oils, filters, fluids, including gearbox stuff
... and I do it at least twice a year.

--
The Caretaker.
A balanced argument.
www.4x4prejudice.org

 

>
> I have not seen a selectable four wheel drive Land Cruiser officially sold
> in the UK for nearly ten years.
>
> Huw
>
>
> I have not seen a selectable four wheel drive Land Cruiser officially sold
> in the UK for nearly ten years.
>
> Huw
>

Agreed - although the newer Landcruisers are okay offroad the best model was
the early to mid 90's VX Amazon. All the diff locks, power etc you ever
needed. Newer UK models (can't comment for rest of the world) don't have all
those transmission options anymore. They'll probably drop the ladder chassis
soon....

Nevillef


 

"nevillef" <F_CK@FF_SPAMMERS.COM> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> I have not seen a selectable four wheel drive Land Cruiser officially
>> sold in the UK for nearly ten years.
>>
>> Huw
>>
>>
>> I have not seen a selectable four wheel drive Land Cruiser officially
>> sold in the UK for nearly ten years.
>>
>> Huw
>>

> Agreed - although the newer Landcruisers are okay offroad the best model
> was the early to mid 90's VX Amazon.


Had one of those.

All the diff locks, power etc you ever
> needed. Newer UK models (can't comment for rest of the world) don't have
> all those transmission options anymore.


My 100 series Amazon has selectable centre and rear diff locks though I
seldom use the rear. It has more power than the previous version and is a
significant step forward in almost every way.



They'll probably drop the ladder chassis
> soon....
>


Land Rover have dropped it to good effect on all models bar the [soon to be
replaced hopefully] Defender and I can see little reason for Toyota not to
follow on both their models as long as it does not compromise performance.
Indeed if the new Range Rover and Discovery are to be taken as examples then
performance is enhanced not compromised in all conditions.

Huw


 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> What about the freelander dont you like ?


Rover parts bin interior. Over priced, under specced, ****e gearbox,
stupid decision to rely on a lowish first gear and electronics rather
than to fit a high/low ratio.

> Must admit havent drive the wifes much but its a fun little car very quick


<snort>

Quick my arse 0-60 13.2s for the diseasel, 0-60 10.1s for the V6.
Glaciers accelerate faster.

> handles well and a reall giggle I find ? I had the merc ML450 and the
> freelander is much better both on and off road


Compare it with the X-Trail which is in the same category. The X-Trail
****es on Land Rover's chips.

The Freelander is for those who can't see past the badge.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
 
..
"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gsaw8k.jdla121tpqhuxN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>
> Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year.


Petrol engine?
--
Budgie
Note: email address is a dummy


 
On Sunday, in article <[email protected]>
hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk "Huw" wrote:

> "nevillef" <F_CK@FF_SPAMMERS.COM> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > They'll probably drop the ladder chassis
> > soon....
> >

>
> Land Rover have dropped it to good effect on all models bar the [soon to be
> replaced hopefully] Defender and I can see little reason for Toyota not to
> follow on both their models as long as it does not compromise performance.
> Indeed if the new Range Rover and Discovery are to be taken as examples then
> performance is enhanced not compromised in all conditions.


One long-exploited feature of the Defender design is the ability to fit
very different bodies. It's at the small end of the light truck market,
with off-road capacity. Whether or not it's a significant part of the
market, I couldn't say.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
Budgie <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1gsaw8k.jdla121tpqhuxN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> >
> > Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year.

>
> Petrol engine?


4.0 SOHC, yes.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
 
..
"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gsbx24.15f048p1s74yreN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>
> 4.0 SOHC, yes.
>


But in that case, your fuel costs will be much higher.
--
Budgie
Note: email address is a dummy


 
Budgie <[email protected]> wrote:
> ..
> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1gsbx24.15f048p1s74yreN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> >
> > 4.0 SOHC, yes.
> >

>
> But in that case, your fuel costs will be much higher.


What do you want, some sort of award for blindingly obvious statements?
Does a petrol Land Rover cost less to service than a diesel Land Rover?
Not in my experience, and despite the claims made here that you can
service a Land Rover for £100 (well you can just about get the
lubricants and filters for that) I've never had a Land Rvoer serviced
for less than £300 at the local LR dealer, and usually the bill is about
£530. Usually twice a year at that. And that's provided it doesn't break
down. The extra cost for petrol over diesel is pretty small in actual
fact, I get 14-24mpg off-road to on-road in mine vs the 20-27mpg I got
from the 2.5TD Defender. The servicing difference costs more than the
petrol does.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
 
In article <1gsc1rj.1vjye3gt3i33fN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth wrote:
>
> Not in my experience, and despite the claims made here that you can
> service a Land Rover for £100 (well you can just about get the
> lubricants and filters for that) I've never had a Land Rvoer serviced


Last year I bought 25 litres of engine oil and 5 oil filters for under
£50. I also changed the oil in the Tbox and both axles, that probably
cost me another £20.

Not quite 'just about get the lubricants and filters' for £100 is it?

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.
 
Simon Barr <[email protected]> wrote:

> Not quite 'just about get the lubricants and filters' for £100 is it?


That was the estimate given here by other Land Rover victims.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
 

""David G. Bell"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sunday, in article <[email protected]>
> hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk "Huw" wrote:
>
>> "nevillef" <F_CK@FF_SPAMMERS.COM> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > They'll probably drop the ladder chassis
>> > soon....
>> >

>>
>> Land Rover have dropped it to good effect on all models bar the [soon to
>> be
>> replaced hopefully] Defender and I can see little reason for Toyota not
>> to
>> follow on both their models as long as it does not compromise
>> performance.
>> Indeed if the new Range Rover and Discovery are to be taken as examples
>> then
>> performance is enhanced not compromised in all conditions.

>
> One long-exploited feature of the Defender design is the ability to fit
> very different bodies. It's at the small end of the light truck market,
> with off-road capacity. Whether or not it's a significant part of the
> market, I couldn't say.
>
>


A van and a chassis/cab version with alternative bodies are no problem with
any vehicle with a chassis. I would imagine that a chassis/cab version would
be somewhat deficient without a chassis LOL.
A van and a plain pick-up and one or two other popular versions would be no
problem though. Who knows, maybe LR will retain a chassis just for the new
Defender model, which really can't come too soon because Defender sales are
suffering a lingering death. Ask most LR dealers how their Defender sales
are going and they will reply 'what sales?'.

Huw


 
On Monday, in article <[email protected]>
hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk "Huw" wrote:

> ""David G. Bell"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > One long-exploited feature of the Defender design is the ability to fit
> > very different bodies. It's at the small end of the light truck market,
> > with off-road capacity. Whether or not it's a significant part of the
> > market, I couldn't say.
> >
> >

>
> A van and a chassis/cab version with alternative bodies are no problem with
> any vehicle with a chassis. I would imagine that a chassis/cab version would
> be somewhat deficient without a chassis LOL.
> A van and a plain pick-up and one or two other popular versions would be no
> problem though. Who knows, maybe LR will retain a chassis just for the new
> Defender model, which really can't come too soon because Defender sales are
> suffering a lingering death. Ask most LR dealers how their Defender sales
> are going and they will reply 'what sales?'.


I didn't realise Defender sales were that bad.

If they were careful about the pick-up design, it could cover most
special-body needs. But could the structure be stiff enough for
something like a Pink Panther? No upper cab to bridge the hole where
the doors are. That's the weak point.

I suspect military procurement could abandon Land Rover if there isn't a
standard model close to their needs. If they want something that can
do that topless role it might not be possible, with modern design
regulations, to buy something with a civilian-compatible structure. And
right now there's a lot of essentially civilian-spec Land Rovers in
military service which, if the **** hit the fan, could go out in the
field with the Wolf models.

That's a more useful reserve than backing up Hummers with Jeep
Cherokees.

I know there's stuff in the pipeline that might replace the Land Rover
with a military-specific vehicle for front-line use (is there a front-
line in any likely war?) and then go for some 4wd pick-up for the rest.
But the US Army in Iraq has found that there isn't really a front line
any more, and if you want armour kits for the Hummers, you also need
them for all the supply trucks.

The civilian and military versions of the Defender aren't identical, but
a lot of the military gear is a bolt-on. (Not FFR, but that never has
been.)

Anyway, once the Defender can't be sold into the front-line procurement,
and lack of a chassis could lead to that, it's a lot less attractive for
the other 4wd utility roles. Lose the military market, and maybe the
balance tips.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
"David G. Bell" ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

> I suspect military procurement could abandon Land Rover if there isn't
> a standard model close to their needs.


I thought they pretty much already had in favour of the Pinz?
 
>Blippie schrieb:
>>The Freelander performs suprisingly well on poor traction surfaces - used
>>it
>>to tow a bogged down Disco last year!


>Well, a 'surprise' is well defined by the reference point being the basis
>for
>your judgement.
>To nullify this I'd suggest to simply follow me or several other guys from
>this
>NG on their trails. This may well lead to a qualified re-adjustment.


LOL, I might suprise you by bringing along my mate's Camel Trophy Defender!

I'm well aware of the limitations of the Freelander - I used to own a "real"
Landrover - a Series III safari sation wagon - one of the ones with the 2.6
petrol. It's just I needed something a bit more refined!

Cheers

Blippie
--
Ten minutes of this rain will do more good in half an hour
than a fortnight of ordinary rain in a month.


 
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