L-series cam belt failure

Happyhippo · Jul 7, 2014

Just thort I would share my hard luck story with you!

There I was driving along when I heard a flapping noise. Just had time to say what's that noise when the engine coughed and stopped. Had a look underneath and saw the remains of the alternator belt hanging down. Rang the AA and was quickly relayed home on a low loader.

On first inspection it looked as if only the alternator belt had failed but a clue was that the engine would not turn over with a socket on the crank nut. Further investigation showed that the bits of the drive belt had somehow wedged behind the crank pulley, jammed the belt and the teeth had been torn off the cam belt resulting in the rapid stop.

I am assuming that the damage will probably be terminal for this engine which although it's covered 140k miles is a good'un. 2000my XeDi.

Apart from the usual rude comments any advice on best course of action? Head off or engine out?

Unhappy hippo

gareth123 · Jul 7, 2014

Hello unhappy hippo

Exactly the same happened to me last summer. A flapping cracking noise was followed by the battery light coming on so i knew the alternator belt was gone. i carried on hoping to get off the motorway but then I lost half power, then all power. I had to be towed away. Yes, some debris found its way under the timing cover and set everything out with disasterous results.

I opted for a complete top rebuild as sourcing another engine here in France would have taken time and sometimes the devil you know ............ It cost me a whopping 2700 euros with labour and all new LR parts (after market parts dont exist here). A year on I am happy I went this rouet as the car is going just fine!

Commiserations - but it can be sorted (at a price)

Gareth

GrumpyGel · Jul 7, 2014

Ouch, feel for yu. Looks like you'll have to get the head off to see if its just valves gone or pistons as well. If its just valves you could get a head from a breakers - dunno if it would need to be from a Freelander or whether any L Series head off a Rover car would do.

Does anyone know if there's anything you can do in the way of preventative maintenance that could help reduce the likelyhood of this happening? Would hate it to happen to my motor.

bukko · Jul 7, 2014

Dunno, but my L series aux belt snapped twice during it's lifetime, both times the cam belt was fine.
I guess I was just lucky.

Am missing that car right now...

Nodge68 · Jul 7, 2014

Top end rebuild might be all you need, if you are lucky?!!
Head off first, this will show any piston damage. Go from there.
Good luck.

Kizzeh · Jul 7, 2014

The l series has a weak point in it, I can't remember where of the top of my head, but it tends to only bend these things and crack cam followers. Mine jumped 3 teeth and was fine......for a bit.

I just brought a complete 2nd hand engine from a breaker. It ended up being cheaper and quicker than any alternatives but every case is different

Happyhippo · Jul 7, 2014

Thanks guys for your replies. I'll have to tackle the head off another day. I can only take so much bad news! In case you want to do some preventative maintenance, the alternator belt which failed had done about 5.5k miles and was 1year old, although the cam belt was coming up for its third renewal.

dustmaker · Jul 8, 2014

When you replaced the aux belt did you replace the
tensioner as well ?

Kizzeh · Jul 8, 2014

Tensioners are known to get stiff and burn the belt off

GrumpyGel · Jul 8, 2014

Bugger, I spent 500 quid getting the 3 belts changed on my L series a couple of years ago - I hope he changed the tensioner!

BYW, I was on Rimmer's website just now, they have new L Series engines for 950 UKP - damm good price. Presumably its got all the 'insides' (eg pistons valves etc). 'Normal' price is 3,140 evidently. They say "stripped" not sure what that means - its got no manifolds or fuel pump by the looks, but the oil pump is there.

Happyhippo · Jul 8, 2014

Just to be clear the tensioners are all good and running freely without any noise. The aux belt never actually snapped which is why the alternator warning didn't light. Strips of what looks likes the wire reinforcing started to unwind from the aux belt until there was a mass of wire which got tangled behind the crank pulley. It was a Dayco belt dated 22may 2013! The engine went from running normally to making strange noises and failing within half a mile. The point is if it's going to happen to you, apart from a daily inspection there isn't much you can do about it. So you might as well enjoy!

gareth123 · Jul 8, 2014

It must have the wire reinforcing that made the crackling noise with mine - I had noticed it in the previous week and tried to diagnose but couldn't find anything wrong. Weird. Oh well I will know for next time (if lightening ever strikes twice - which of course it does). Let us know how it progresses. For my big bill I had everything at the top end renewed regardless of whether it was damaged . Runs as sweet as pie now - as I said before a self (or trusted) rebuild is better than a thrid party rebuilt engine.

Good luck!

Happyhippo · Jul 9, 2014

Well thanks to GrumpyGel for the heads up. I bought the last L-series crated new engine from Rimmers and it arrived this morning with only a little bit of damage which Rimmers are putting right by sending me replacement parts. There is a fair bit of work to do in transferring all the bits from old engine to new but it allows me to fix all the niggling problems at once! At the end of all this I will have a new engine and also a good bottom end engine with damaged head.

One question I have to the experts is about the FP timing on the new engine. New engine comes with cam timing belt in place but nothing else. I have to transfer everything from old to new. What I had planned to do is lock old engine at TDC (if it will turn to this position with the valve damage) then remove spacer and tighten bolt onto FP shaft to lock that in place. Transfer FP to new engine with all timing marks lined up and timing rods in place. Fit sprocket and loosen sprocket outer fixing bolts until I can slot in timing rod at FP end of new engine. Does that sound about right? I know that this needs to be as accurate as possible otherwise there is not enough compensation available to the needle lift sensor to make the necessary adjustment. If it wont turn to TDC I will have to remove the head first.

The rest of the job looks pretty straightforward but I will probably jack the front high and remove the front cross member and remove engine and gearbox together.

Any helpfull tips gratefully appreciated!

GrumpyGel · Jul 9, 2014

wow. I am right envious of your purchase! Its a lot of money to spend on a car of that age - but at that price its fantastic value for money. Compare it to a 'rebuilt' IRD at 650, or an engine recon and its cheap as chips

I really hope the swap over goes easily for you. You will be grinning from ear to ear when you fire that beauty up! I've got no experience of removing pumps. I've read the Rover docs about locking it etc - but as you say if the engine won't turn to TDC then its going to take some head scratching. If you remove the head, it'll take away the camshaft that the pump is driven by. I wonder if the pistons can be disconnected from the crank so they don't push up against the bent valves? If you don't get much response on this thread - I'd start a new one for it in case there's people with experience on the forum who might not be following this thread.

We put our small scale order into Rimmers today for 2 bushes for my son's Rover 220 Turbo - cost $30 plus $40 for shipping! Still way better than $185 which is the cheapest we can get them here.

Happyhippo · Jul 9, 2014

Thanks for that but I was quite happy with the old engine which was the best bit on the car! It had never done more than 8k miles between oil changes. I'm gutted that it's eaten it's own valves. The cost of repairs would quickly add up to what I paid for the new engine. It didn't take long for me to realise what to do.

I have enough trouble getting bits for English cars in England. I dread to think what it must be like in NZ!

Any help on timing the FIP will be gratefully received!
Happyhippo

gareth123 · Jul 9, 2014

Wow what a lovely new engine. I wish I had had that option! I hadn't realised Rimmers still had new ones (didn't read the post properly!) I am sure a lot of people on here will be able to advise on the 'transplant' so I agree that you should perhaps start a new thread as an ongoing project. Good luck - and I am indeed envious of the gleaming parts (even though mine is going fine I still have an old bottom end). I spent twice as much as you (but with labour which you will be able to save on!)

GrumpyGel · Jul 10, 2014

Happyhippo said:
Thanks for that but I was quite happy with the old engine which was the best bit on the car! It had never done more than 8k miles between oil changes. I'm gutted that it's eaten it's own valves. The cost of repairs would quickly add up to what I paid for the new engine. It didn't take long for me to realise what to do.

I have enough trouble getting bits for English cars in England. I dread to think what it must be like in NZ!

Any help on timing the FIP will be gratefully received!
Happyhippo

I sounded a bit like my wife there - been to the shops and look at all the money I've 'saved' with these bargains! Feel you pain - but still envious.

I picked up a replacement brush wheel for our Dyson vac the other day. The place I picked it up from had an Austin 1100 sitting outside. With car parts being the topic of the week I asked him how he got on getting parts. His answer was that it never needs any - "I think I replaced the points once"

GrumpyGel · Jul 6, 2017

Happyhippo said:
Apologies for hijacking Winu's thread but I saw a reference from grumpy on 'ere about me bagging the last L series engine from Rimmers. You may want to hear how it went...It seems a while ago now but it turns out that it might have been an L series engine but it wasn't a freelander engine. After exchanging the sump and various other bits that weren't the same or weren't required, the transplant went all according to plan and all my fears went away when the engine burst into life. A marvellous feeling!
I eventually stripped the old engine and as expected the cam followers were cracked. It seems to be the only real damage. Anyway the old girl is going better than she's ever done (freelander is OK too!) 150k miles or so.

I still have the old engine it was a good un with just the cracked followers if anyone wants it they are welcome to it for the cost of collection from the South Bucks area near High Wycombe.
Happyhippo

G'day HappyHippo - I think Winu gets a bit upset when his threads go off topic, so dug the original out!

Its great to see you are back to being a Happy Hippo

I can imagine your apprehension when you turned the key and your delight when it fire into life

I should think we are 2 peas in a pod now - enjoying our L Series engines, but constantly concerned about the condition of our alternator/fan belt!

Mine has continued to give fantastic service - I got 43mpg out of it on a trip a couple of months back - I was on a weekend away with a bunch of Landie owners and keeping to the speed of the slowest which was an old Series truck

Having said that, it did fail its WOF (MOT) a couple of weeks back on the top engine mount. I've replaced it and although it appears to have fixed a (what must have been) related problem with clutch judder, I'm sure I'm getting more noise and vibration now from the engine.

I shall be passing near to High Wycombe in a couple of months on my way up to my brothers in Stratford. Given the availability of parts over here, will your old engine get into the 20KG airline baggage allowance?

Happyhippo · Jul 6, 2017

Hi GG! I guess you could put a handle and a set of wheels on it and try and pass it off as hand luggage. It won't arf give you a headache if it falls on your head though! It is more like 50kg.
I don't like scrapping what could be useful to someone.

Next job to do is renew the outer bushes and through bolt on these tie rods. I did the other side some years ago and it was a right royal PITA to remove the through bolt.

L-series cam belt failure

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