Series 3 keeps on dying while driving

85Santana3 · Aug 5, 2020

Hello everybody
I seem to have endless list of problems. Almost embarrassing to ask.
The truck started with difficulty this morning. I had to jump start it by pushing it down hill. Then as I was driving to the garage it kept on dying. I was starting it up while moving over and over again (the first 20 minutes were down hill and car had moment so it would restart). This repeated maybe 10 - 15 times, then when we reached flat ground and busy traffic it died and would not start again. I parked it by the side of the road till I can arrange towing. I know there is fuel in the car. What does this signs tell you? Any suggestions is greatly appreciated.

300bhp/ton · Aug 5, 2020

Bump started

What sort of engine are you running? Petrol, diesel? Standard, Modified? Have you checked anything at all yet?

85Santana3 · Aug 5, 2020

It is 1985 Santana Especial Series III, 2.25 petrol, standard. I've checked my pocket and this better not be an expensive problem.

Hicap phill · Aug 5, 2020

Go through the basics
Fuel
Spark

85Santana3 · Aug 6, 2020

I searched online and some videos are showing that fuel tank breather might be blocked. Since I started the car till it stopped completely I recall engine sounded differently there was a whooshing sound. Does it tell you anything?
Also, since these cars have no sensors or computers most diagnosis suggestions do not apply here. Can this problem be due to faulty distributor? In another world does it sound electrical or fuel related based on the above mentioned signs? Any tests you can suggest? The fact that I could immediately restart the car while it was on the move does it show anything?
thanks in advance

Marmaduke · Aug 6, 2020

How much fuel is in it? Could be a porous pickup pipe in the tank. Doubt it's the breather on the tank but you can leave the filler cap off to discount that theory. What state is the battery in?

Colthebrummie · Aug 6, 2020

If it still has the standard ignition system, I would first check point gap and the condenser. Does it have a transparent fuel filter, if so does it have fuel in it after it starts to die.

Col

300bhp/ton · Aug 6, 2020

85Santana3 said:
I searched online and some videos are showing that fuel tank breather might be blocked. Since I started the car till it stopped completely I recall engine sounded differently there was a whooshing sound. Does it tell you anything?
Also, since these cars have no sensors or computers most diagnosis suggestions do not apply here. Can this problem be due to faulty distributor? In another world does it sound electrical or fuel related based on the above mentioned signs? Any tests you can suggest? The fact that I could immediately restart the car while it was on the move does it show anything?
thanks in advance

Basic diagnosis is EXACTLY what you need tbh. The lack of an ECU makes this simple really. It's either fuel or electrical if it's a new problem. If it's never run right, then it could be both.

If you aren't sure how to have a look, I'd suggest getting it towed to a garage/mechanic to take a look.

It really could be a multitude of things, from a blocked fuel line or crap in the carb. To a dodgy coil. As someone posted above, are you still running points or have you converted to electronic ignition? Points are notorious for being problematic, especially when old or not maintained.

85Santana3 · Aug 6, 2020

Marmaduke said:
you can leave the filler cap off to discount that theory

That is an interesting thought, thanks.

Colthebrummie said:
I would first check point gap and the condenser

I am not sure how to do this. I have to search to find out what this means but thanks for pointing it out.

300bhp/ton said:
still running points or have you converted to electronic ignition?

These Santanas are different in many ways, I am not sure even what is the difference between electronic and points. I will check and let you know.
I went to the truck and tried to revive it. I poured 12 L of fuel in it to make sure it is not empty and tried it. No go, then I got jump start from another car. Again it did not start. The battery must be empty entirely becasue it sounds different now. Even with the jump cable attached to another car's battery I did not even get a crank which is odd on its own.
Interesting thing is that when you do a web search or watch some youtube instruction videos almost nothing applies to LR series. No relays, no sensors, no computers, no electronic device giving you codes and still so confusing to figure out what is what.

Colthebrummie said:
Does it have a transparent fuel filter, if so does it have fuel in it after it starts to die.

Yes Col it has one before and one after fuel pump (my own doing) to see if fuel flows. It does. It gets fuel but it dies or now does not start. Tomorrow I am going there again to try another battery.
Is there a simple test to see if something as blocked the carb? I mean beside opening and looking inside it? I just remembered that I had the similar problem with my motorcycle once and it turned out that rubber gasket around the air dish (vulcan 1500 classics had a big metal dish on the side of engine covering the air intake) was sucked inside blocking air. Could it be something like that?

Marmaduke · Aug 6, 2020

Just a thought, what condition are the earth starps in between the engine/chassis/battery?

Henry_b · Aug 7, 2020

Sounds like the battery is fubar'd

I'd start with a fresh one!

Marmaduke · Aug 7, 2020

Check the output from the alternator anorl...

Colthebrummie · Aug 7, 2020

It does now sound like there is an issue with power from the battery. Do the lights come on fairly bright when turned on. You need to check the cable connections from the battery to the earth and to the solenoid. If your battery is flat a good jump from another vehicle should have at least turned the engine over.

Problems with the carb are possible but in my opinion these old carbs are pretty reliable unless you have put dirty fuel in or run the tank dry, in which case some crud may have been suck into the carb. If this was the case though, you would probably see some crud in the fuel filter.

Take the distributer cap off and take a look at the points (if there any). Rock the car back or forward whilst in 4th gear to see if the contact gap opens and closes. If the problem is the condenser it is hard to diagnose without changing it for a new one. If all of these check out ok, it is time to check the coil.

Col

85Santana3 · Aug 8, 2020

I took the battery to a shop and after testing it they said it is beyond hope. So I got a new battery and went back to the truck. It started on the first trial strongly and beautifully. It drove for 1/2 kilometer and pottered and stopped again. It restart and it shut off again. Sound of starter and new battery tells me that it is not the battery starter or alternator (right?)
Following Col's suggestion I opened the dist. cap and looked inside. They looked fine to me, but then again unless there was something really unusual (like a frog inside) it would have looked fine to me . It was the first time I had looked inside that thing. There was no condensation or rust. There is a transparent filter right before carb. It contains fuel when it is shut off (although less than usual I think). I have a mechanical and one electrical fuel pump and I have tried both. They both can not be faulty at the same time.
I am really puzzled. It looks like engine is not getting fuel. If one or two of spark plugs where not firing I should get smoke and puffpuff sounds of improper combustion, which it does not have that.
There are no curds in the fuel filter so that takes care of dirty fuel (although being a cheap dickhead I always refuel when the tank is completely empty).
Can a problem with dist. or condenser (as suggested) have these signs?

WoodyO · Aug 8, 2020

If the battery was shagged you've got to ask yourself why. Have you tested alternator output?

85Santana3 · Aug 8, 2020

WoodyO that is a valid question. To be honest no I have not, but when you have a brand new fully charged battery installed and 2 minutes later the car dies again, is it still a problem caused by alternator? or we have a problem killing the car in addition to possible problem with alternator?

Dippypud · Aug 8, 2020

85Santana3 said:
WoodyO that is a valid question. To be honest no I have not, but when you have a brand new fully charged battery installed and 2 minutes later the car dies again, is it still a problem caused by alternator? or we have a problem killing the car in addition to possible problem with alternator?

Might be an internal fault killing your battery ...

WoodyO · Aug 8, 2020

If the alternator isnt charging its going to kill the battery fairly quickly, especially a petrol running electrical ignition etc. That being said, I'd expect it to last longer than 2 minutes.

Get a multimeter and check battery voltage with engine off vs engine running, easy check and a multimeter is less than a tenner if you dont have one.

Expect to see 12v engine off, no load and approx 14v engine running.

85Santana3 · Aug 8, 2020

Dippypud said:
Might be an internal fault killing your battery ...

What kind of internal fault? Obviously something is wrong, but what? That reminds me of an old saying "My wife is the future cause of my demise, but when and how!?"

welcome to the forum WoodyO.

Dippypud · Aug 8, 2020

85Santana3 said:
I do not understand what you mean. What kind of internal fault? Obviously something is wrong, but what?

If the alternator had an internal fault, the battery would be running on reserve charge and may not have been fully charged when fitted which didn't help your diagnosis ...

Series 3 keeps on dying while driving

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