JUST a little bit tighter AAAnnnd ... CRACK?! (Oh dear)

3.9i `94, MA097*** VIN No. D1 had `an` oil leak on purchase 13 months ago and after `finishing` all the main jobs I decided to try and make this the first D1 (or any Landy) to run with no oil leaks (just dreaming, please read on ..).

Located the main leak which was from the oil pressure switch off side just above the oil pump & filter, out at right angles to the what I think is the timing cover. I say `think` because there appears to have been quite a lot of oil pump & pressure switch implementations by Land Rover on the early V8`s and ..well right up to the present time I guess.

So carefully manoeuvering a slim adjustable in I tightened it. Still leaking a few days later I took the switch out, coated with a little sealer and a new ring, fitted and tightened but just a bit too far; the results can be seen in the pictures below.

Oh dear I thought upon inspection of scene of accident, but worse it didn`t appear to be on a part that was easily replaced. Looking it up and comparing DOR (April `94) and Vin number it looks like a whole Timing Cover replacement `issue`.

A new LR cover might be findable but very costly. And OEM or other replacement might be equally difficult to find, but we`ll see. To begin can someone identify the cover and confirm that it is this one, please :
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-ERR6814

The engine number is 36D295*B

Good advice on taking things apart, order, tricks etc and importantly what not to do it would useful.

Whilst in repair mode, I`d like to fit an additional oil cooler along with pressure and temperature gauges (for hotter climates/endurance this is not unwise, methinks) but also wonder if there any other useful engine improvements in the area that could be done? It has a new radiator already which has one electric fan, clean cooling system, only begins to get hot on slow work intensive off road hot days ... while standing still for five minutes with engine running.

Silly question of the month, although the timing cover is `of course` aluminium, would it be possible to repair..; well, worth asking.

Thanks & Amen.

Hi All

Today I pondered on the best way to begin. So the oil filter came off and so began the 3rd drain of Magnatec in two weeks.

As far as I can see the order of things is :

1) Somehow remove the main pulley wheel attached to the end of the crank shaft .. locked on by all of 200ftlbs of force.
2) Remove the distributor
3) Detach any pipes
4) Undo the timing cover bolts and remove timing cover.

Now the best way to get the main crank bolt off I`ve found is to first remove the lower half case of the flywheel adjacent to the engine sump. Then lodge in a 13mm spanner on one flywheel bolt and rest spanner arm in the slot cut out in the flywheel casing. Then get my trusty long chrome vandium wheelnut remover with a 24mm socket on the crank bolt and turn it anti clockwise it being a right hand thread, carefully watching the pulleys do not turn with it. Hey presto, loosened in 3 seconds. I`m glad I didn`t try the `wedge a rachet on to the crank nut and with entension bar resting on the edge of the chassis and blip the starter motor ..` (with or WITHOUT the main coil plug detached; might be good on a survival course .. but in any case how would it be bolted back on again to required torque?), nor the 4 by 2 up inside the sump jamming the shaft. So then with a 5ft crow bar I detensioned the drive belt tensioner while removing the belt before then removing the crank bolt and pulling off the crank pulley.

I then loosened the distributor retaining nut but said dizzy won`t just pull out. More study required.

dizzy wise i have found a small lever applied below the vac unit and pivoted of the front timing case allows it to pop out. I have had mine in and out about 10 times in the last week or two.

Okay, thanks for that .. I was just being a bit gay with it then I suppose, a bit more force to be used today.

Ipcress said:

Okay, thanks for that .. I was just being a bit gay with it then I suppose, a bit more force to be used today.

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Understandable with the results of your last application of force, just give it a bit of a lift from below whilst pulling from the top too. It's been in there a long time so no surprise it's putting up a bit of a fight.

DiscoPol said:

Understandable with the results of your last application of force, just give it a bit of a lift from below whilst pulling from the top too. It's been in there a long time so no surprise it's putting up a bit of a fight.

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Gently but firmly Done! All marked up and photographed prior to lifting out, logging slight anticlockwise movement of drivegear on extraction.

Thank you for your `understanding`

Just one difficult long bolt but otherwise it went to plan, more or less. Timing Cover is now removed as a lump with water pump still attached, and naturally the integral oil pump too.

I may get away with not having to remove the sump again after a bit of coolant entered the gap on breaking the timing cover seal, we`ll see.

Slight clean up of TC prior to photographing for an engineering company who reckon that it could be fixable, depending; depending how bad they think it is, but not least the relative difficulty in finding replacement TCs for this particular engine these days, so fixing things is becoming quite a viable option. I learnt that it is a Serpentine engine too, which I`d always wondered about; due to the belt meandering like a lake or something?

There is another option too, underprisingly its nothing to do with fleabay. These parts ARE becoming rare, so don`t make a c0ckup like I did on over tightening the oil pressure switch, just sayin..!

What I will do is get a suitable tee adaptor for the switch and an oil gauge too. I notice that most gauges are 100psi plus which is no good really for my D1V8; Average pressure anywhere between 10 and 40 psi on a good engine I think, so may have to go digital .. then the gauge won`t look so under impressive not having a needle permanently pointing into the first quadrant all the time. Appreciate mechanical is better, but really only want a max 60psi.

I looked at the timing belt and wonder if it needs replacing. On the `pull` left hand side looking at from front, there is about 1cm of slack/play; on the right hand side there is more, maybe 1.5cm slack. Time to replace?

The inside of the water ways look nice and clean but I`m wondering if they are getting `too clean` now. That may seem daft but I`m using pink coolant and understand that its pretty corrosive to these `olde` Rover/GM V8s. Does anyone know if the green coolant is really the one to use and if so where on earth do you get some..

Have a nice day ya`ll!

Looking at your pictures it could be that the casting has been cracked for a while hence your oil leak, and that final tightening could have caused the final breaking off of the casting. It can be welded back into place by any competent TIG welder, and is what I would be doing if it was mine.

Murtle said:

Looking at your pictures it could be that the casting has been cracked for a while hence your oil leak, and that final tightening could have caused the final breaking off of the casting. It can be welded back into place by any competent TIG welder, and is what I would be doing if it was mine.

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That`s interesting, do you mean the initial photo of prior to my swiping engine grime onto it in an attempt to `clean it up` for photos; ie the one on zoom when in situ? There appears a fine dirty line with ingrained contamination on the right hand side ..is that what you mean I wonder. I wasn`t going to mention it before as it would seem churlish not least because over all I`m more than pleased with my D1V8, BUT the nice chap I bought it from did say there was a leak around that area (so why not do something about it..?). Not saying he knew there was a fault/crack, but it certainly crossed my mind there was one and as you say `that final tightening ..`.

But no worries, the TC was itself leaking a bit at the bottom anyway and a mini overhaul of the area is a good thing.

So, I have one broken TC that might well be repairable and have a good company surveilling it to report back, and another freshly acid dipped and re crank sealed TC on its way to me courtesy of V8Developments. Seriously, these particular parts are getting expensive and the TC alone in the not too distant future could well cost a small fortune; I noticed `new old` LR replacements` are unobtainable unsurprisingly, but so too are the next best new ones, at around £700 inclusive. The first of three specialist companies I contacted asked for the engine number and laughed, saying `no chance`....

One thing I have noticed is the surprisingly bad fit of the LR pressure switches themselves, in that there is no conical bevelling matching the female screw&cast in the TC, it seems to be held pressure tight by a thin ring seal and force at threads ends? Doesnt seem good to me, which is why I sourced what I consider a better pressure switch because it at least has the right fitment, a conical male into conical female. When I hear back on the repair costs avec welded in tee piece for oil pressure gauge I may well take an option on it for that reason rather than the chance of me pranging the `new` one, hopefully arriving shortly. As I want to get it back on the road asap and noticing that all the tee pieces I`ve found for installation of a pressure gauge also do NOT have a conical fit I think I will give that bit of `improvement` a miss; a welding in and permanently sealed tee piece is a different thing which I`d have no problem with.

Gaskets ordered today and tomorrow a clean up in preparation along with a stripping of the water and oil pumps from donor for transplant. The timing chain is fine I`ve been reliably informed.

The `which coolant` question came to mind again. Who knows is the answer, as long as its not mixed and kept clean and regularly refreshed @ 50/50ish seems to be the answer whatever colour... but for the record mines pink.

Thoughts on sealant for timing cover and water pump in addition to `quality` gaskets ... ? Anyone with experience / advice on that please?

And do the oil filter screws and nut require Loctite 222 ..

AND.. What`s this `vaseline` priming in the oil pump business?

Update : just bought a large pot of vaseline; hmmm.

For your antifreeze stay with the red OAT and replace every 5years. The green-yellow antifreeze as used by Rover, Land Rover and Jaguar is still available and replaced every 3years, Unipart supplied it to LR the last I used it, green is still available from main dealers or with other brand names i.e Comma from the likes of Halford's.
The cheapest stuff seems to be blue and replaced at 2 years max.
Ive been using red OAT for the last 15+ years which replaced the green stuff and with out any issues.

Thanks. Unsurprising that this causes such debate / argument & confusion when these V8s are so highly susceptible to complete breakdown due to overheating. But its the gaskets and seals and various metal corrosion issues to consider on top that really matter, the temperature thung is almost secondary. Advised by biggest parts distributor in the UK to `go Blue` yesterday! .. on the grounds that `all cars before 2000 should have blue antifreeze`. So if someone were to change their coolant say, not get all of the olde stuff out, whatever colour but we`ll say pink, filled up with blue or green and six months later the heads go they are not going to be feeling too happy; it really does require a little bit more thought and consideration than just blindly taking advice like that and / or misinterpreting and not being thorough.

Varying advice found online, but sticking with that and USLR mechanic who`s information is that it was from EARLY 1990s that LR were using pink OAT in Defenders/Discos .... but importantly NOT in Range Rover`s 1993 to 1995 where they had German I think he said BMW engines.. really?! Yes it depends what was first put in a vehicle at factory together now with the year of manufacture, but even so, if you`re on pink now with a mid nineties Disco V8 I wouldn`t start messing around with it but instead just keep it clean and mixed right.

I use the blue stuff. Seems to work fine.

johndregg said:

I use the blue stuff. Seems to work fine.

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On what vehicle, John?

5/16th nuts seem hard to come by.

The new timing cover arrived today all nice and clean, and with one difference in that the bottom studs were in place whereas my olde cover had no studs but an enclosed thread taking the sump bolt from below.

Again, reliably informed that this is the better thing, presumably because that is a vulnerable point and needs a bit more reinforcement. However, finding what is I think a 5/16th nut for the studs has been difficult locally, even went to a classic car place among others, and they had nothing tho` kindly gave me 4 metric nuts to try none of which fitted. Not surprised really when remembering that these blocks and TCs etc are a Rover import of General Motors circa 1960 with virtually zero reengineering (..or metricization on sizes at least... not that that`s good you understand) nor for that matter retooling which led I understand to the general diminishing quality of the engines into the late `90s.

Anyhow, gaskets and switch arriving shortly hopefully, tho` V8Dev. WOULD have suppied if I`d mentioned (my fault entirely!) and no doubt a couple of nuts too.

Oil and coolant stock refreshed and waiting.

No advice forthcoming so far on `the vaseline` so I take it that a liberal amount applied in the oil pump is a good thing in the circumstances...

Ipcress said:

Thoughts on sealant for timing cover and water pump in addition to `quality` gaskets ... ? Anyone with experience / advice on that please?

And do the oil filter screws and nut require Loctite 222 ..

AND.. What`s this `vaseline` priming in the oil pump business?

Update : just bought a large pot of vaseline; hmmm.

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just cram pump with it it creates enough suction to pull the oil up from sump

jamesmartin said:

just cram pump with it it creates enough suction to pull the oil up from sump

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Roger on that, thanks.

Do the pump screws required loctite?

Ipcress said:

Roger on that, thanks.

Do the pump screws required loctite?

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i use a little on intenal bolts

jamesmartin said:

i use a little on intenal bolts

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But would that include oil pump screws?