Freelander 1 Jatco auto gearbox problem

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My next steps are to put an LED on the air con compresoor clutch control signal to see when it's switching the air con on/off. I will also take oft all the pedal sensors and play with them. Check their wiring is ok and put them back. Will have to do this with time intervals so I know if the fault is completely gone or not after driving for a bit.

I have thought about these pedal sensors before and what effects they have but me hawkeye reads them ok. You can see the accelerator pedal % push down value increase as you slowly press and depress it. I still think taking the fuse box apart and squeezing all the relay/fuse pins has reduced the frequency of the fault occurring. It's as if say the brake pedal has an intermittent voltage drop due to an intermittent contact problem, but this is also exaggerated by other faults like problems contacts in the fuse box which are also intermittent. All or 1 will come and go and this causes the blip in the signal when a voltage may be poor, hence the fault being intermittent.

Going to wash it this weekend. :)
 
Hippo said:
Hi. I've looked into this and I think my auto's wires are ok. My barrel connectors are tie wrapped together just in case they come apart again. I too have had the battery etc out so I could see the wiring loom and all looks ok. My resistance values are solid and don't change. Problem is the fault is intermittent, but I've been working my way through stuff and it's become less intermittent. I think it's down to loose connections somewhere. More likely several and the more I find and cure them, the less often the average loose or bad connection causes the fault to occur. Some of which I have probably corrected but you don't realise until you notice the average number of "fault occasions" drop over time.
Click to expand...

Ok,
then at least that wouldn't be the fault. I know it drove me almost mad last year, when I tried everything I got advice for from a guy in a German forum and here last year and it didn't work as I wanted to use my car. Sometimes still it seems to me that when gearing up it kind of still stucks in between gears if the rpm isn't correct. I was wondering if maybe changing the MAF would make a difference or to pop a RonBox into it. Anyway, I hope you'll get it sorted soon. I got a Jatco book but is still in Germany. The guy from LR said it'd be really good. If I can get a copy over maybe can have a look into it.
 
I think mine might do this too occasionally, its usually going up from 3 to 4...it feels like its in both gears if that makes sense...there is still drive but its like its reduced. ..kind of like when its stuck in between the two gears its like clutch slip. Then the slip goes and gets 4th and everything is ok...

Does this sound like you problem?...
 
I have a few random issues with my V6. When cold/ warm, under light throttle, going down hill, I get a thump on the up changes 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. Once it's at running temperature, the issue appears to vanish.
I also get a rather alarming, random but very infrequent fault. It only happens when the weather is warm and I've been using some of the V6's power. If I give it some beans and run the revs over 4500, as the box changes up, say from 2nd to 3rd, there is a kind of power drop off. This is rather alarming as it's as though the ignition has been switched off. This power loss simple gives on response on the throttle for 2 or 3 seconds. In this time, the car is coasting and the rev counter drops down. Then as if by magic, the power comes back and it's off again like nothing has happened. This fault may well re appear at the next gear change, or maybe not re appear for another 3 months.
It's hard to describe but it's like when the box changes up normally, the engine torque is dropped off briefly to allow a smoother change. My fault is like this normal torque reduction is vastly exaggerated. A couple of seconds later, it's back to normal and power is restored.
I feel sure that all these different faults on the Jatco box can be traced to bad connections somewhere.
 
Nodge68 said:
I have a few random issues with my V6. When cold/ warm, under light throttle, going down hill, I get a thump on the up changes 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. Once it's at running temperature, the issue appears to vanish.
I also get a rather alarming, random but very infrequent fault. It only happens when the weather is warm and I've been using some of the V6's power. If I give it some beans and run the revs over 4500, as the box changes up, say from 2nd to 3rd, there is a kind of power drop off. This is rather alarming as it's as though the ignition has been switched off. This power loss simple gives on response on the throttle for 2 or 3 seconds. In this time, the car is coasting and the rev counter drops down. Then as if by magic, the power comes back and it's off again like nothing has happened. This fault may well re appear at the next gear change, or maybe not re appear for another 3 months.
It's hard to describe but it's like when the box changes up normally, the engine torque is dropped off briefly to allow a smoother change. My fault is like this normal torque reduction is vastly exaggerated. A couple of seconds later, it's back to normal and power is restored.
I feel sure that all these different faults on the Jatco box can be traced to bad connections somewhere.
Click to expand...
Could that be something like a knock sensor triggering and dropping the power? Failing that a trigger point when conditions mean the power drop oft to protect the engine/auto.

Since taking my fuse box apart and squeezing the metal clips which grip the fuses/relays my P1475 code hasn't come back since it was cleared. Normally it would be back after a bit and keeps coming back when cleared. It's related to the vis. You could try taking your fuse box apart too.
 
jedi said:
I think mine might do this too occasionally, its usually going up from 3 to 4...it feels like its in both gears if that makes sense...there is still drive but its like its reduced. ..kind of like when its stuck in between the two gears its like clutch slip. Then the slip goes and gets 4th and everything is ok...

Does this sound like you problem?...
Click to expand...
No. Mines on down change from 3 to 2. Does it with a slight bump which you feel. Fault is intermittent but you can make it happen more often when the air con is on. It will do it when yer braking with yer foot on the pedal as well as feet oft and slowing down naturally.

I was thinking about brake pedal and accelerator pedal sensors a while ago and remembered the reason why I put my thoughts on them to one side was due to it happening sometimes when slowing down naturally with feet oft the pedals.

There is a rare occasion when braking it feels as if the engine is pushing as if it doesn't realise I want to slow down. This will be related to the signal which advise to use engine/gearbox braking. If it doesn't get this signal then it will continue as if it wants to drive when I'm braking. This is very rare, but it part of the problems me thinks. So I'm going to play with the pedal switches one by one to see if anything changes.
 
I think 2-3/3-2 transitions are a weak point with that box.
I'm guessing there must be something different about that change, like the action happens in a different part of the gearbox or something similar.

Re the continued pushing while braking, I get the same occasionally. It's most noticeable when coming to a rapid stop. I'd been ignoring it because in comparison to other problems it is relatively minor!.
 
bukko said:
I think 2-3/3-2 transitions are a weak point with that box.
I'm guessing there must be something different about that change, like the action happens in a different part of the gearbox or something similar.

Re the continued pushing while braking, I get the same occasionally. It's most noticeable when coming to a rapid stop. I'd been ignoring it because in comparison to other problems it is relatively minor!.
Click to expand...

The gear ratio difference between 2nd and 3rd is quite large. This coupled to the fact that engine braking is greater in 2nd than any other gear except 1st causes the thump. 1st gear is only selected when stationary. Having said that, I get smooth down changes in all gears.

Auto boxes do push against the brakes. That's normal, it's caused by the torque converter maintaining drive.
 
The pushing I get is more than the normal push of the auto. It's as if I'm asking it to go forwards with the accelerator pedal as well as braking. Hard to describe the feeling. The brakes are less effective due to more forwards force) and you have to push on the brake pedal more to get it to stop. It very rarely happens so nothing I can do about it. Feels strange when it does it.
 
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Hippo said:
The pushing I get is more than the normal push of the auto. It's as if I'm asking it to go forwards with the accelerator pedal as well as braking. Hard to describe the feeling. The brakes are less effective 9due to more forwards force) and you have to push on the brake pedal more to get it to stop. It very rarely happens so nothing I can do about it. Feels strange when it does it.
Click to expand...

Could this be down to the brake servo not boosting consistently? I get a similar affect if I've applied the brakes a few times in short succession. This is likely due to the variable engine vacuum. The early KV6 engines used air assisted injectors. This injector air feed reduces the manifold vacuum. This is why the Freelander has a vacuum booster valve. This valve helps draw some vacuum over a venturi, thus boosting the vacuum at the servo. It's an effective but not foolproof system. I too have noticed this slight chance in braking efficiency on occasion.
 
Nodge68 said:
Could this be down to the brake servo not boosting consistently? I get a similar affect if I've applied the brakes a few times in short succession. This is likely due to the variable engine vacuum. The early KV6 engines used air assisted injectors. This injector air feed reduces the manifold vacuum. This is why the Freelander has a vacuum booster valve. This valve helps draw some vacuum over a venturi, thus boosting the vacuum at the servo. It's an effective but not foolproof system. I too have noticed this slight chance in braking efficiency on occasion.
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Don't think so. When I take me foot oft the brake it speeds up a little.

It's difficult to describe... If you drive a manual car like a petrol fiesta in 1st gear at 1200 revs then take yer foot oft it will slow down. The drop in revs is felt due to engine/gearbox braking. Wait for the engine/computer to settle at the new "tick over" revs whilst still driving with yer feet oft in 1st gear. Now put the clutch in and slowly introduce 2nd gear while it still travels along. As 2nd gear is nearly fully in when the clutch is nearly fully released, the engine revs will drop a bit due to the loading of the higher gear at too lower a rev. Then as if by magic the engine will suddenly have a bit more power (accelerate a bit) and pick up without you asking it too, as the computer re-does what ever it's doing to power the higher gear a bit.

I know this sounds daft but me old fiesta did this and so do many hire cars I drive at work. It's the only example of the push when braking I can give. It's quite scary to think ma hippo has a mind of it's own. I often wonder if he has web access on ere to learn of new faults he could have.
 
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What you are describing is the ECU maintaining the idle speed. You can maneuver most modern cars by just lifting the clutch gently. The ECU will throttle the engine to maintain idle speed regardless of load. The Freelander ECU does the same thing. In neutral the engine will idle at 800 + or - 50 rpm. Select drive and the extra load should slow the engine down, but no, the ECU opens the IACV to admit more air. This isn't a fault, it's normal. If the Freelander was manual it would also do as you described.
Did you know?
The engine speed is ECU controlled to maintain alternator output. More electrical gadgets, more power drained, so the ECU speeds up the engine to keep up with the demand. The KV6 uses a smart alternator that communicates with the ECU, literally telling the engine ECU how much current is being supplied.
The S2000 ECU in the Freelander is a very complex bit of kit!!

If the engine speeds up when the brake is off, maybe the IACV is sticking? It's not uncommon.
 
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My push feeling is always with a full battery and running for long enough to be warm. Not sure what conditions it normally does it under, but I don't think there is anything wrong as such other than it not knowing we're braking as opposed to speeding up, stopped etc. It's a 1 off event every 3 to 4 months. I don't get any error codes anywhere. If I pull over it's still pushing harder than normal when stationary with brakes on. If put in neutral it ticks over at normal speed for engine temp. Not really fussed about this as it's so rare but it would be interesting to capture.
 
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Hippo said:
This auto fixing things has been going on for some time now. I'm busy with other stuff at the same time. I also have to wait to see if my tinkering resolves the problem as I've managed to get the fault to happen a lot less often now. That's good but you have to wait longer to see if the fault is still there.

One of the things I was concerned about was the occasional bump when putting it into drive or reverse, or taking it out of drive or reverse. I wondered if the rear diff was jumping about but it wasn't. I've seen the pinion/ird rock up or down when pulling away (filmed it) so that got me thinking about the engine mounts. In particular the lower tie bar at the bottom rear which connects to the subframe. It seems to be a common failure part.

I also had a vibration on the steering wheel at about 50+ mph. On certain roads

this was 40+ mph but I assumed this was the road itself. It may well have been a contributing factor or a cause of the vibration coming out as it would happen on certain roads at certain places.

I changed from grabber AT2's to Pirelli scorpions long before the current auto fault popped up. I hated the rumble from the AT2's from day 1. Especially when venturing to bala 4x4 in Wales for pay and play. 60mph roads were orrible. Comparing the ride at 70mph in ma hippo to a new Freelander 2 proved ma
hippo had problems. I know the FL2 has betterer suspension but cruising at speed should be comfortable in both vehicles. The tyre change reduced the road noise and vibrations but there was still something I felt was wrong, but not enough to pinpoint as it didn't happen all the time. In the end I filmed the engine while starting/stopping and pulling away. There wasn't much movement other that what you would expect. I started waiting 5 seconds between gear lever movements from R to N, then to D as opposed to R straight to D. I was thinking this may give the auto and it's pump more time to feed fluid to where it's needed. This sort of made the "change into gear" bump less or unnoticeable. But it was still there. This problem was cured for a while with an auto fluid change.

In the end the fault was tracked down to the lower tie bar which supports the bottom rear of the engine. I tried rocking the engine and pushing ma hippo with it in gear and couldn't see much movement on the engine or bar. It's a heavy car so not easy. I bought a new lower tie bar (I know you can polly bush them but I wanted a new one) and played with it. The comparison showed my old bar was faulty but only when removed from ma hippo. This surprised me but after fitting the new one ma hippo feels smoother and more luxurious to drive. I didn't realise there was a constant background vibration as it was always there and the ride got betterer after the AT2 tyres were removed so I assumed that was how it should be. Video below of the old and new mounts for comparison.

Freelander 1 - Lower tie bar failed - YouTube

I will continue with my search for the auto problem and keep thing fred alive with updates.
Click to expand...

Hi Hippo,

Can I ask where you got your new lower tie bar from?

Ta muchly
 
NeilTD4 said:
Hi Hippo,

Can I ask where you got your new lower tie bar from?

Ta muchly
Click to expand...
Got mine from the main dealer. I get 10% oft parts with me allegiance card. Part no kkh102680 for mine. Normal cost is £41.27+vat. Yer can change the larger bush but I wanted a swop so I could compare.
 
Is the correct number for it KKH102680?

Bearing in mind mine is a TD4 auto.

I've seen some with an additional lump on the large bush end...
 
NeilTD4 said:
Is the correct number for it KKH102680?

Bearing in mind mine is a TD4 auto.

I've seen some with an additional lump on the large bush end...
Click to expand...

The tie bar with the added mass (lump) is from a 1.8 petrol engine.
I believe all other models are use the same tie bar.
 
NeilTD4 said:
Is the correct number for it KKH102680?

Bearing in mind mine is a TD4 auto.

I've seen some with an additional lump on the large bush end...
Click to expand...
From microcat 2010:

v6 = kkh102680
Td4 auto = kkh102680
Td4 manual = kkh000070
1.8 petrol vin up to WA602570 = anr5823
1.8 petrol vin WA602571 to YA999999 = kkh102260
 
Thanks Hippo.

Ordered (from Rimmer bros) and now fitted. Strangely, the one I took off had the lump on it, but I'm guessing it was the original and past it's best…

Gear changes felt smoother on my short test drive:)
 
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