Its broken.

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 20, 2023

Help/advice needed.
3.9 V8i manual discovery 1996.
Before Xmas it decided not to start. It turns over, very nearly fires, but doesnt. Im at uni so have basically no tools at all.
EZ-start makes no difference, so its a spark issue. I bought a sparkplug to test it, and it sparks once when I first try (first lap of the dizzy) then never again.
My guess was ignition coil, so I ran down to the parts place and got one. Fitted it with no tools and it still doesnt work.
So it went to a local garage on a flatbed, who after 6 weeks called me and told me theyve given up. Ive got a bill of over £200 and a 2ton paperweight thats just had 700 quids worth of BFGs put on it.
I brought a few tools from home back to uni with me after xmas, including a multimeter. Ive got a mate with a shogun whos going to drag it back to the campus carpark for me, and from there Im going to try to fix it. Ill get a list of everything from the garage that theyve checked/tested/done, and if any of you have any ideas, that would be fantastic.
Thanks!

Western Slope Rover · Feb 20, 2023

What did the garage do for £200? Do you have a list of what was checked?
Things like ignition amplifier module or crank sensor ( I think the 96 has one, but not the 95......maybe). Also new coils can be bad.

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 20, 2023

They started by changing all 8 sparkplugs. Then they said the distributor was broken, and they said they couldnt find another, so I sourced one from a local breaker (cost me £80). Then they said the ECU got wet (wasnt leaking before) and it was blowing relays, so they dried it out.
Then they said that the wiring didnt match the diagrams and that its obvious someone else has messed about with it.
They also said they checked the earth strap (which Ill double check with a jumplead)

Western Slope Rover · Feb 20, 2023

The ignition amp is a known weak point. It doesn't like too much heat and a bad one can cause these issues. It's attached to the dizzy. It can can be replaced with a better situated replacement away from the heat of the engine.

Are all the funky relays now working or do you know?

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 20, 2023

Ill have a look at the ignition amp. Ive not seen the relays or the wiring myself, but Ill probably head down on wednesday to pay the bill and push it out of their compound, so it can be dragged on the weekend.
Is an ignition amp expensive?

Western Slope Rover · Feb 20, 2023

LetsHopeItFits said:
Ill have a look at the ignition amp. Ive not seen the relays or the wiring myself, but Ill probably head down on wednesday to pay the bill and push it out of their compound, so it can be dragged on the weekend.
Is an ignition amp expensive?

Not really here in the States. $30-$50.

discool · Feb 20, 2023

LetsHopeItFits said:
Ill have a look at the ignition amp. Ive not seen the relays or the wiring myself, but Ill probably head down on wednesday to pay the bill and push it out of their compound, so it can be dragged on the weekend.
Is an ignition amp expensive?

Expensive, well my quick search its £25, Part number STC1184G for the Lucas item. My 10 year old just in case amp cost me £14.
From 1996MY Land Rover repositioned the 3.9s Ignition amp, the amp is attached with the coil on the slam panel behind the near side head lamp and so no issues from heat there.
I assume u have a UK spec vehicle therefore it has a ‘spider’ immobiliser asb the symptoms u described are similar to a failing immobiliser circuit.
So check the vehicle when unlocked and remobilised that u have 12v at the coil on position two of the starter switch.
If not try a single wire link from the battery + to the coil + … if it is a spider issue the engine should the fire up straight away.
Albeit thats if the vehicle is still as it left the factory and unmolested

Don't worry about crank sensor your 3.9 doesn’t have on

kermit_rr · Feb 20, 2023

Sounds like the garage doesn't have a clue, in my opinion.. a bit of logic goes a long way, these engines aren't that hard, with not a huge amount of electronics in the way
Hopefully the garage hasn't changed anything too significantly

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 20, 2023

kermit_rr said:
Sounds like the garage doesn't have a clue, in my opinion.. a bit of logic goes a long way, these engines aren't that hard, with not a huge amount of electronics in the way
Hopefully the garage hasn't changed anything too significantly

Agree completely. Started by changing plugs, really? All 8 of them have failed and it wont start?
Im in 2 minds about paying them. On one hand theyve spent many hours on it and changed a few things, on the other hand, customers pay garages for the service of fixing cars, which they havnt done.
It depends how helpful they are with crossing things off the list. Ill ask for a full list of everything theyve tested. If theyre dicky about it, Ill pay them to release my car and then go through small claims

kermit_rr · Feb 20, 2023

LetsHopeItFits said:
Agree completely. Started by changing plugs, really? All 8 of them have failed and it wont start?
Im in 2 minds about paying them. On one hand theyve spent many hours on it and changed a few things, on the other hand, customers pay garages for the service of fixing cars, which they havnt done.
It depends how helpful they are with crossing things off the list. Ill ask for a full list of everything theyve tested. If theyre dicky about it, Ill pay them to release my car and then go through small claims

Garages sometimes won't admit they're stumped and don't know

hopefully you can find a reasonable compromise

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 20, 2023

They litterally said "Yeah we've given up on it mate"

kermit_rr · Feb 20, 2023

LetsHopeItFits said:
They litterally said "Yeah we've given up on it mate"

With a bit of encouragement from here I'm sure you'll see it sorted

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 20, 2023

kermit_rr said:
With a bit of encouragement from here I'm sure you'll see it sorted

Ide love to fix it right infront of them and drive it away. Ive got a multimeter, so Ill test everything. I suspected one or more of the wires feeding into the coil, personally.

kermit_rr · Feb 20, 2023

First thing you need to do is charge the battery. It's been sat at the garage while they've done who knows what, it could be in any state

Spong · Feb 21, 2023

kermit_rr said:
First thing you need to do is charge the battery. It's been sat at the garage while they've done who knows what, it could be in any state

Good point - maybe take a fully charged battery to the garage and swap it over before doing any checks.

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 22, 2023

Well Im going today to pay the bill and push it out of their yard so I can get it on the weekend.
Thankfully theyve decided not to charge me any labour, so just for the sparkplugs, which is kind of them.
So, has anyone got any useful links to what all the wires should be doing?
Ill start by testing the battery voltage and the earth, and then all the wires which connect to the coil. How do I test the ignition amp? Thanks

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 22, 2023

Even better, how do I bodge the ignition amp and drive it away?

kermit_rr · Feb 22, 2023

this looks useful

kermit_rr · Feb 22, 2023

will you get the old parts back? they might actually be good

LetsHopeItFits · Feb 22, 2023

Superb, thanks. Ill ask for my old bits, bit if not then those bits seem cheap enough

Its broken.

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