Disco 2 Is this the end of my disco?

Si Click · Oct 28, 2019

Yes. Follow the procedure in RAVE 12-1-96 and 97 Overhaul. You will need new bolts for the end caps as well as new bearing shells. With a 10p engine you will want to swap the bolt in the oil pump while you are in there.

Stanleysteamer · Oct 28, 2019

Re the torque on the crank pulley bolt, with the sump off it should be easy to lock the crank against the block with various bits of wood in order to undo it, although locking the starter ring gear on the flywheel is the normal way to do it. There is also a tool you could easily copy that you can find on YouTube which is basically a long piece of metal rod connected by a nut and bolt to a shorter piece into which you fit the square drive to a socket. With the nut and bolt a bit loose you whack the heck out of the long piece held at right angle to the short piece, (remembering you want to turn the pulley bolt anti-clockwise,) longtitudinally which then turns the short piece and shocks the pulley bolt undone.

But at the end of the day, most people would take the engine out to do the work on it.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 30, 2019

So, having taken the sump completely off, I can actually now feel that the oil pump bolt is in fact loose (as Stan suggested checking) - its somehow jammed before popping out, but the sprocket as a result is all over the place. The chain is still on and to the naked eye looks fine, but once you get hold of it it’s very slack!

Very interesting!

NPG · Oct 30, 2019

Vagabondrobb said:
So, having taken the sump completely off, I can actually now feel that the oil pump bolt is in fact loose (as Stan suggested checking) - its somehow jammed before popping out, but the sprocket as a result is all over the place. The chain is still on and to the naked eye looks fine, but once you get hold of it it’s very slack!

Very interesting!

Could those bits of metal be a result of this then ? I've read about cases when the bolt comes loose but stays in place, causing the key on the sprocket to wear off. Depending on the amount of wear, this could probably put the timing off and hence why the engine wouldn't start.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 30, 2019

Vagabondrobb said:
So, having taken the sump completely off, I can actually now feel that the oil pump bolt is very loose - its somehow jammed before popping out, but the sprocket as a result is all over the place. The chain is still but once you get hold of it it’s very slack!

NPG said:
Could those bits of metal be a result of this then ? I've read about cases when the bolt comes loose but stays in place, causing the key on the sprocket to wear off. Depending on the amount of wear, this could probably put the timing off and hence why the engine wouldn't start.

I will check, but The metal def isn’t from the sprocket. Looks suspiciously like skimmed bearings.. or something else!

NPG · Oct 30, 2019

Vagabondrobb said:
I will check, but The metal def isn’t from the sprocket. Looks suspiciously like skimmed bearings.. or something else!
View attachment 193024

Unfortunately those bits do look like bearing plate material. Probably the loose bolt caused the oil pump not to turn, resulting in bottom end failure. Pity for such a stupid bolt to cause all that. From what I know, no. 3 would be the first one to go. So with the sump off, you can easily check that out. Maybe you caught it early and you can save the crank.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 30, 2019

NPG said:
Unfortunately those bits do look like bearing plate material. Probably the loose bolt caused the oil pump not to turn, resulting in bottom end failure. Pity for such a stupid bolt to cause all that. From what I know, no. 3 would be the first one to go. So with the sump off, you can easily check that out. Maybe you caught it early and you can save the crank.

Just taken the bottom casing off (bloody sump is such a nightmare to remove!!)

Seems fairly clear where the damage is from the debris in the 1st and 2nd from top...?

Gonna have a quick coffee and then continue on!

Stanleysteamer · Oct 30, 2019

The bits that do look like bearing material don't to me look exactly like the bits you showed in another photo, or is it just that these bits have now been photoed better?
You haven't mentioned it, but were all the big ends whole?
Anway, looks like you've got to the bottom of it in more ways than one. Crank regrind at worst and bearing replacement, not the end of the world but very labour intensive.
And I REALLY wouldn't fancy doing it under the engine. Mind you, now you are where you are, it should be possible to do as mentioned above, disconnect all the big ends shove them out of the way then turn the crank to examine it for damage, especially as you know where the damage is likely to be, but you'll either have to reconnect the sprockets and time the cam or remove the head, unless you manage to clear the crank with the big ends without contacting the piston head with any valves.
If you are unbelieveably lucky, and find the crank doesn't need a regrind, about a (.001% chance), then you could just reshell the whole lot and breathe an enormous sigh of relief although reshelling a crank in situ is not the easiest of things to do. (I once knew a bloke who did this with every vehicle he ever bought, in situ, another nutter I suppose!)
The very best of luck mate!

Vagabondrobb · Oct 30, 2019

Vagabondrobb said:
Just taken the bottom casing off (bloody sump is such a nightmare to remove!!)

Seems fairly clear where the damage is from the debris in the 1st and 2nd from top...?

Gonna have a quick coffee and then continue on!

View attachment 193045

Stanleysteamer said:
The bits that do look like bearing material don't to me look exactly like the bits you showed in another photo, or is it just that these bits have now been photoed better?
You haven't mentioned it, but were all the big ends whole?
Anway, looks like you've got to the bottom of it in more ways than one. Crank regrind at worst and bearing replacement, not the end of the world but very labour intensive.
And I REALLY wouldn't fancy doing it under the engine. Mind you, now you are where you are, it should be possible to do as mentioned above, disconnect all the big ends shove them out of the way then turn the crank to examine it for damage, especially as you know where the damage is likely to be, but you'll either have to reconnect the sprockets and time the cam or remove the head, unless you manage to clear the crank with the big ends without contacting the piston head with any valves.
If you are unbelieveably lucky, and find the crank doesn't need a regrind, about a (.001% chance), then you could just reshell the whole lot and breathe an enormous sigh of relief although reshelling a crank in situ is not the easiest of things to do. (I once knew a bloke who did this with every vehicle he ever bought, in situ, another nutter I suppose!)
The very best of luck mate!

Cheers mate!

So here’s big end number 2 (see pic)- the edges shaved off and most probably the source of the horrible metal on metal screeching noise. Highlighted blue you can see what I’m assuming is the cylinder sleeve protruding down, and evidently thats colliding with the head.

I wonder if the failure of oil pump caused friction between the sleeve and cylinder, causing cylinder to push it down and out a few centimetres??

I haven’t inspected the bearings yet, but everything looks just fine, apart from the obvious.

Anyone seen this kinda thing before?!

Stanleysteamer · Oct 30, 2019

Vagabondrobb said:
Cheers mate!

So here’s big end number 2 (see pic)- the edges shaved off and most probably the source of the horrible metal on metal screeching noise. Highlighted blue you can see what I’m assuming is the cylinder sleeve protruding down, and evidently thats colliding with the head.

I wonder if the failure of oil pump caused friction between the sleeve and cylinder, causing cylinder to push it down and out a few centimetres??

I haven’t inspected the bearings yet, but everything looks just fine, apart from the obvious.

Anyone seen this kinda thing before?!

View attachment 193051

Soooooooooo, it was the big end after all, I did wonder. Thought only V8s had sleeves, shows I've yet to take one apart. If that is the case then I am afraid I do not think i have much advice to offer, only car I ever had with sleeves was a Renault and those sat in rings which if disturbed caused no end of problems. Once a sleeve has moved....God knows if the block is salvageable. Re-bore, resleeve? Hopefully others will jump on and advise you.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 30, 2019

Stanleysteamer said:
Soooooooooo, it was the big end after all, I did wonder. Thought only V8s had sleeves, shows I've yet to take one apart. If that is the case then I am afraid I do not think i have much advice to offer, only car I ever had with sleeves was a Renault and those sat in rings which if disturbed caused no end of problems. Once a sleeve has moved....God knows if the block is salvageable. Re-bore, resleeve? Hopefully others will jump on and advise you.

Cheers mate. Well I thank you for all of your input, very much appreciated!

brianconwy · Oct 30, 2019

According to Rave the bores aren't sleeved.
Cylinder Block
The cylinders and crankcase are contained in a single cast iron construction. The cylinders are direct bored and
plateau honed with lubrication oil supplied via lubrication jets for piston and gudgeon pin lubrication and cooling. It is
not possible to rebore the cylinder block if the cylinders become worn or damaged. Three metal core plugs are fitted
to the three centre cylinders on the right hand side of the cylinder block.

Mine didn't look sleeved.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 30, 2019

brianconwy said:
According to Rave the bores aren't sleeved.
Cylinder Block
The cylinders and crankcase are contained in a single cast iron construction. The cylinders are direct bored and
plateau honed with lubrication oil supplied via lubrication jets for piston and gudgeon pin lubrication and cooling. It is
not possible to rebore the cylinder block if the cylinders become worn or damaged. Three metal core plugs are fitted
to the three centre cylinders on the right hand side of the cylinder block.

Mine didn't look sleeved.
View attachment 193056

Hmmmm. Certainly looks like I have a sleeve...

After a quick google I found a cylinder block liner for td5 to fit “regular size pistons”
https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/cylind...90-lfl105300liner-lfl500030liner-p-19730.html

Perhaps previous owner replaced pistons and used liners?

Unless it could be something else?

The mystery deepens.

Stanleysteamer · Oct 30, 2019

Following this with increasing wonder!

flat · Oct 30, 2019

maybe that liner is so you can overbore and sleeve the block? i dunno :/

brianconwy · Oct 31, 2019

Looking at this advert it seems likely that the block has been repaired.
https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/89536190-cylinder-liner-c2x20634878

Perhaps I could have salvaged my block, but I bet these would take some fitting and with the cost of a new cylinder head etc. wasn't financially viable.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 31, 2019

Seems like previous owner must have had a fair bit of work done.

Funny you never quite know what’s gone on in history of a 20 yr old Land Rover! The seven years I’ve had her the engine has been perfect.

Most annoying is that I had replaced the sump 8 months ago but had misplaced my freshly ordered replacement oil pump bolt - it definitely wasn’t loose then so took the risk of leaving it!

I suppose question now is what to do... I’m determined for this not to be the end of the road!

flat · Oct 31, 2019

I would look for a good running engine and just swap like for like, salvage any good components off the old one then scrap the block etc.

Probably easiest, quickest and cheapest way to get it back on the road

Maybe find an engine from one with terminal rot, or rear end damage etc

Other option would be to get a short block from turners and put all your ancillaries on it

brianconwy · Oct 31, 2019

That is my plan. Trying to find a suitable engine without spending too much, as these discos aren't worth a lot.

flat · Oct 31, 2019

brianconwy said:
That is my plan. Trying to find a suitable engine without spending too much, as these discos aren't worth a lot.

Might be easiest to buy an mot failure, pull out what you want and scrap/sell the rest

Having said that you might find one that’s a bit long in the tooth, my mate brought one for £700 - full leather, engine runs nice but chassis won’t get through next mot. He isn’t fussed as the engine and interior are worth the money

Disco 2 Is this the end of my disco?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads