IRD Oil - what the heck?

Joe_H · Jul 26, 2016

Then I really think the issue is elsewhere. - I think the IRD oil is a red herring..

The 'issue' may be (unlikely) but maybe in the IRD - but I doubt it.

Again mate, please can you explain when you said - 'it was reproducible' ????

B34R · Jul 27, 2016

Joe_H said:
Then I really think the issue is elsewhere. - I think the IRD oil is a red herring..

The 'issue' may be (unlikely) but maybe in the IRD - but I doubt it.

Again mate, please can you explain when you said - 'it was reproducible' ????

Hmm, I understand what you're saying - it's entirely possible there's a red herring here.

The interesting thing is I realised last night I still have most of a bottle of this gear oil left, bought at the same time, if I've got time this weekend I could drop it and refill, see if I can reproduce the result.

One thing I forgot to mention - when I dropped the oil out of the ird, it was as thin as water, which gave me a "that's odd" thought at the time - it definitely didn't go in that thin. I'd suspect the oil cooler, but I'm not losing coolant and it wasn't emulsified.

When I grab it out of the garage I'll snap a picture of the bottle.

Joe_H · Jul 27, 2016

B34R said:
Hmm, I understand what you're saying - it's entirely possible there's a red herring here.

The interesting thing is I realised last night I still have most of a bottle of this gear oil left, bought at the same time, if I've got time this weekend I could drop it and refill, see if I can reproduce the result.

One thing I forgot to mention - when I dropped the oil out of the ird, it was as thin as water, which gave me a "that's odd" thought at the time - it definitely didn't go in that thin. I'd suspect the oil cooler, but I'm not losing coolant and it wasn't emulsified.

When I grab it out of the garage I'll snap a picture of the bottle.

Hi B34R mate,
That is also very strange - the oil coming out like water. I suppose if it was hot .... definitely would be interesting to see the actual make and bottle...
I would not try to 'reproduce it' - too risky me thinks. I would be tempted to run it up on the motorway and then drain it to see if there is any more particles in the oil.
I would also be tempted to buy a good quality known make correct oil for the IRD and after the inspection of the 10 40 after a run - refill with that.

For some strange reason today (probably lack of sleep lol) I cannot seem to find an 'official' spec for the IRD oil...... hmmm....

Also, when I mentioned before about checking the D/S (UK) drive shaft inner cv - check it for movement where it enters the IRD - not so much the cv itself. ANY movement there is a big worry as that is where the main support bearing for the DIFF and appropriate shaft in the IRD is.
Fingers crossed mate. !
Joe

Joe_H · Jul 27, 2016

Hi Mate, all I can find for the IRD oil - from Microcat -the only part number I can find for a !!! 25 Ltr drum !!! - is STC9175

This appears to translate to -
http://www.texacobaltic.eu/en/products/heavy-duty/multigear-s-75w-90.html or equivalent ....
It says fully synthetic - however I don't hold much store by that as most 'fully synthetic' oils use a majority of standard oils also. (very misleading labelling) - so to me that is a load of bollox. simply change the oil as required by your wisdom of the age of the vehicle.
So, any GOOD KNOWN MAKE 75W90 GL4/5 = normal / semi synthetic / fully synthetic / should be perfectly fine.
The IRD is a very simple unit in reality and should have any good gear oil - any really that is designed for a final drive diff unit.

Joe

Nodge68 · Jul 27, 2016

The IRD should use a fully synthetic oil which is GL4/5 rated and a 75w90 viscosity. It is under extreme stress so demands a high degree of oil protection

Joe_H · Jul 27, 2016

Nodge68 said:
The IRD should use a fully synthetic oil which is GL4/5 rated and a 75w90 viscosity. It is under extreme stress so demands a high degree of oil protection

Hello Nodge, whilst I fully agree that is the spec - I am totally unconvinced re so called 'fully synthetic' oils - most of the hype is bollox. The vast majority of the base oil is mineral. A 'semi' synthetic - you would find it hard to buy anything else due to the totally ridiculous and misleading BS talked about the so called 'synthetics' are equally as useful.
On a freelander IRD - ANY known make oil of the correct grade - regardless of 'semi' or 'full' synthetic - which actually doesn't exist ///////

/// /............. should be changed more frequently due to the age of the vehicles these days.
Use ANY well known make - it will be absolutely fine. the 'so called' synthetic argument and advertising is so misleading these days - it is out of hand. The oils that were used when the freelander IRD was in production are of a lower quality than a modern 'normal' oil without all the other added BS - the real issue is the rating and the GL. Nothing more (IMHO OF COURSE MATE) - we can all disagree - that is what makes the forums so good... then folks can - hopefully - do some research on their own.
Cheers n Beers
Joe

Nodge68 · Jul 27, 2016

The main difference between oils, be it a straight mineral or full synthetic is its life in service.
I agree that the actual base oil stock is the same for pretty much all oils. The processes it then undergoes alters it's chemical characteristics. This gives oils that should last longer, once the additive packages are added.
I personally don't bother with the full synthetic oils for the IRD, but I do use a semi synthetic with a dose of molybdenum for additional friction reduction.

Joe_H · Jul 27, 2016

Nodge68 said:
The main difference between oils, be it a straight mineral or full synthetic is its life in service.
I agree that the actual base oil stock is the same for pretty much all oils. The processes it then undergoes alters it's chemical characteristics. This gives oils that should last longer, once the additive packages are added.
I personally don't bother with the full synthetic oils for the IRD, but I do use a semi synthetic with a dose of molybdenum for additional friction reduction.

Hi Nodge, The only thing I would add is that there is absolutely no such thing as a 'fully synthetic' oil on the normal market for cars - in the way most people think - ie - an oil that does not contain ANY mineral oil. Many folks think that this is an artificially produced ' super ' oil that does not rely on fossil fuels.
Joe

Nodge68 · Jul 27, 2016

Joe_H said:
Hi Nodge, The only thing I would add is that there is absolutely no such thing as a 'fully synthetic' oil on the normal market for cars - in the way most people think - ie - an oil that does not contain ANY mineral oil. Many folks think that this is an artificially produced ' super ' oil that does not rely on fossil fuels.
Joe

Agreed. All off the shelf, standard oils, mineral, semi-synthetic or full synthetic are derived from the same fossil fuel oil stock.
There are exceptions to the rule in industry, but not for domestic vehicular use.
Castrol R springs to mind. This was a vegetable based oil that was big in automotive racing back in the 60s and 70s. It was brilliant at protecting racing engines, but was useless on a road vehicle. It didn't last long enough in normal use as it was designed to be changed after a race.
Oils found in aero turbo jet engines are made in laboratories but they cost hundreds of pounds a litre.

B34R · Jul 27, 2016

Joe_H said:
Hi Nodge, The only thing I would add is that there is absolutely no such thing as a 'fully synthetic' oil on the normal market for cars - in the way most people think - ie - an oil that does not contain ANY mineral oil. Many folks think that this is an artificially produced ' super ' oil that does not rely on fossil fuels.
Joe

Yeah I was doing a spot of reading about this a while ago - about how someone found a way around the rules. That you could simply tweak a small percentage of the oil and call it a "fully synth."

The whole setup now is ridiculous - and the variance between oil manufacturers is mad, causes so many arguments on the internet. If you want to see a good oil argument, go and see the RX8 forums where there's more witchcraft and voodoo about than common sense.

"Yeah mate, changed my oil today and sacrificed three chickens and a llama to the god of oils."

davidsmith1307 · Jul 27, 2016

Best thing about Castrol R is the smell as it leaves the exhaust of a well tuned racer.
That's the smell of my childhood at Brands, Cadwell, Oulton Park, Lydden Hill, Snetterton etc..

Joe_H · Jul 27, 2016

davidsmith1307 said:
Best thing about Castrol R is the smell as it leaves the exhaust of a well tuned racer.
That's the smell of my childhood at Brands, Cadwell, Oulton Park, Lydden Hill, Snetterton etc..

You cannot beat the smell of Castrol R and brning rubber from Avon Turbospeeds

Ye gads - my 'Yoof' relived - swoon......................

Nodge68 · Jul 27, 2016

davidsmith1307 said:
Best thing about Castrol R is the smell as it leaves the exhaust of a well tuned racer.
That's the smell of my childhood at Brands, Cadwell, Oulton Park, Lydden Hill, Snetterton etc..

Indeed. I can still smell it now. It was a wonderful smelling and a brilliant lubricant for its short life. I remember running a Triumph straight 6 at 8,000 Rpm on an engine dyno with that wonderful smell drifting across the control panel.
I was surprised to see so little wear on the bearings for an engine running at such high speeds.
It was wonderful stuff although I do remember it did gum up around the valves.

oldjoe · Apr 8, 2020

Hi , My IRD died last week ( V6 auto freelander MK1) car not drive-able So far the prop and VSC are off and following quotes for replacement and fix either 4WD or TWD ( leaving the prop off on the TWD ) both of which are well over £1,000 ( £2000 + for retaining 4WD which I would prefer) including labour this is way more than the value of the car. I have found a simple blanking plate solution on the internet which seems really simple and a great fix where you just take the IRD off and throw it away and blank off the hole. Has anybody used this fix ? and -daft question sorry-but where does the area behind the IRD ,the blanked off hole area draw it's oil from? Is this the engine oil?

Nodge68 · Apr 8, 2020

oldjoe said:
I have found a simple blanking plate solution on the internet which seems really simple and a great fix where you just take the IRD off and throw it away and blank off the hole.

The blanking plate is used to replace the rear output pinion on the IRD. It's normally the rear out pinion that fails, once the bearings on the crownwheel have collapsed.

You can't remove the IRD, as it forms part of the drive shaft support to the RH front shaft, and also contains the front differential.

oldjoe said:
Has anybody used this fix ? and -daft question sorry-but where does the area behind the IRD ,the blanked off hole area draw it's oil from?

I've used it a couple of times. You simply remove the rear output pinion, and replace it with the blanking plate. It's easy to do, but won't solve all IRD issues, just rear output issues.

oldjoe said:
Is this the engine oil?

The engine oil is only used for lubrication of the engine.
The gearbox oil is used to lubricate the gearbox.
The IRD oil is used to lubricate the IRD.

oldjoe · Apr 8, 2020

Ok Thanks ,I said it was a daft question -still learning.Thanks for help

IRD Oil - what the heck?

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