Interesting clutch pedal

Defender 200tdi 110

First off, I'm one of those noobs who inevitably is probably asking stupid questions. I don't really know anything so nothing to offer in return either. So i suppose I'm hoping someone with too much spare time who wants to show off their knowledge just to please themselves reads the below.

The only excuse I've got is I'm trying to self teach myself maintenance, and only asking here about others experience out of interest, not demanding or expecting help.

This morning as I began to reverse up a hill I lost clutch pedal and engine stalled.

Had a discovery attached via a frame at the time.

Slight residue on clutch pedal. Slight residue on master cylinder threaded bit that attaches to pedal (I took top cover off), and reservoir was nearly empty. Yes I feel like a Wolly for not doing my fluid checks daily.

Anyway toddled off on foot to halfords for fluid and then realised once back at the defender an 11mm socket doesn't work for the bleed nipple as chassis rail in the way!

Still no pedal obviously as must be air. Will toddle back to halfords and get myself an 11mm ring spanner.


But here is where it gets interesting? Bear in mind I'm a noob Muppet trying to self teach. If the fluid in the master cylinder isn't going down, and there's no visible puddles under the vehicle, how come no clutch pedal doesn't work? Worked fine for the few weeks I've had vehicle, though second gear was getting crunchier coming down the box but that might be me rushing the machine.

I must mention that I couldn't force gear stick out of reverse, so I unhitched a frame , then with handbrake on, I used starter motor by turning key to wiggle the vehicle back and forth whilst pulling gear stick. That got me into neutral. With engine off I selected first gear and started vehicle moving using starter motor. Didn't rev match into other gears, just moved vehicle to side of tarmac in first, then pushed into neutral and parked vehicle and shut off ignition. Point being I'm sure clutch fine and clutch fork fine.

Interested to read from others experience.

All the best for now
Shane

fluid loss was probably only over a period of time and just reached the critical level,how does pedal feel ,no pressure but full travel ?

Correct, no pressure at all but travels freely up and down to and from floor

Will be very interesting to see if after bleeding once I get 11mm ring spanner if it drives.

Regardless, new master and slave and whatever else it needs before I attempt towing again

I had this on my 200tdi defender 90 clutch all worked fine. Then had to drain the fluid to weld on a new outrigger. But it didn't want to bleed washing pushing any fluid through.

Don't know what the exact problem was but it was within the master cylinder. Replace it and you should be able to bleed it.
Replace the slave cylinder whilst you are there. They both work the same amount so if one fails the other one is likely to soon.

109inches said:

I had this on my 200tdi defender 90 clutch all worked fine. Then had to drain the fluid to weld on a new outrigger. But it didn't want to bleed washing pushing any fluid through.

Don't know what the exact problem was but it was within the master cylinder. Replace it and you should be able to bleed it.
Replace the slave cylinder whilst you are there. They both work the same amount so if one fails the other one is likely to soon.

Click to expand...

Good advice But he hasn't tried to bleed it yet. He's off to fetch an 11mm spanner.

Very strange situation

Bled with someone pushing clutch pedal and me at nipple. Fluid pouring out nicely but pedal not going firm at all.

I'm now wondering if thrust bearing has burst through clutch plate. Or maybe fluid is bypassing slave cylinder instead of squirting to push clutch...

Anyway didn't manage to get gbox drain plug off because head rounded so didn't get to see if fluid has leaked into bellhousing.

Scratching head...

Shanec said:

Very strange situation

Bled with someone pushing clutch pedal and me at nipple. Fluid pouring out nicely but pedal not going firm at all.

I'm now wondering if thrust bearing has burst through clutch plate. Or maybe fluid is bypassing slave cylinder instead of squirting to push clutch...

Anyway didn't manage to get gbox drain plug off because head rounded so didn't get to see if fluid has leaked into bellhousing.

Scratching head...

Click to expand...

Gearbox drain plug isn't part the bell housing. If you take the actual gearbox drain plug out you will make a big mess on the floor! What you are thinking about is the wading plug which is fitted into a threaded hole in the bell housing, normally it shouldn't be fitted unless you are going wading (and then removed afterwards).

A pressure bleeder is normally a lot better with stubborn airlocks, it provides constant flow and pressure so air bubbles cant float back up the pipe in between pumps of the pedal.

Kwakerman your right I got the wrong terminology. Wade plug is what I was after. If I was attacking the right one its right at front of box in middle facing Down.

Re mess, bleeding took care of that despite trying to use a tub. Gusty wind... Bucket of boiling water and ashovel of soil will sort that

I had to bleed my clutch after changing a bulkhead. Fluid coming out but still nothing. Read up that there is an adjustment screw under the bonnet. Bit of a faf around but sorted it and got my clutch Back. Been a while since I did it mind

Where the adjustment screw please?

There's 2 really..
Bolt on front face of pedal box
And
The threaded rod you went to get a spanner for.

Your dust cover rubber "boots" on cylinders can be very good at holding the leaked fluid - strictly speaking clutch fluid should never need to be topped up............................... unless there's a leak obviously.

Flossie thanks, I did wonder what the bolt on clutch pedal box was.

Went to get spanner for slave nipple, but will need to grind down a 13mm to undo the nuts inside the box that holds master cylinder and end of clutch pedal, because tight on space.

Waldamar thanks, dingbro shut today but will order tomorrow both master and slave.

Decided for now thrust bearing through clutch plate probably not happened because when drive the vehicle without clutch pedal its smooth as normal. Also found out you have to take floor out to pull gearbox, or engine. Wtf! Mad design. I hope I'm wrong?

Dingbro shut today as well. Can't wait for a 24 hour World.

Shanec said:

Flossie thanks, I did wonder what the bolt on clutch pedal box was.

Went to get spanner for slave nipple, but will need to grind down a 13mm to undo the nuts inside the box that holds master cylinder and end of clutch pedal, because tight on space.

Waldamar thanks, dingbro shut today but will order tomorrow both master and slave.

Decided for now thrust bearing through clutch plate probably not happened because when drive the vehicle without clutch pedal its smooth as normal. Also found out you have to take floor out to pull gearbox, or engine. Wtf! Mad design. I hope I'm wrong?

Click to expand...

Tbh, I'm not sure if the floor has to come out or not but removing it makes access really easy.
Mine can be out in 20mins cos its all held in with ss fittings.
Before the restoration of mine and therefore before the ss fittings were used, it took hours, the nuts/bolts along the sills were a royal PITA!
you can also then get an engine crane in through the door to take the weight of the transmission and lower it safely to the floor.

What size of stainless bolts and nuts please? May as well get that done at same time.

M6.
Can't recall the length though.
I struggled to find the big pozi head screws in ss at the time ( around 14yrs ago) that go around the tunnel but they are available.
I seem to recall the (6?) Screws that hold the floor plates to the seatbox front lip are different to the ones holding the tunnel but not sure on that but they do have nut clips to fix into where as the tunnel uses plastic plugs to screw into.
A grinder was my friend for most of the original screws and you will need a large screwdriver for the ones that will undo.
Drivers side is a bit more awkward, the pedals get in the way a tad.

Thanks for the info. Considering cutting out the cross beam between chassis rails and welding plates to the end so it bolts on so can be removed easier. Bit dissapointed in the design of the machine. Loads of space in engine bay yet not designed with fast maintenance in mind at all. Just look at the master cylinder box housing how narrow it is for example, and removing gbox. Sigh.

My gearbox cross member unbolts?

Lucky you, military chassis?