Indicators turn on as hazards randomly

Coffeelandy · Dec 1, 2015

Gents,
Just fitted led side lights indicators etc. Occasionally when I indicate the hazards come on but don't activate the wing indicators.
It always seems to happen after I've driven more than 30 mins. Any ideas???

zeaphod · Dec 2, 2015

Lots of other recent threads here about this. Check earths, tell tale diodes etc etc.

61jason61 · Dec 2, 2015

i've fitted led sidelights and led side repeaters, no problems, however have you fitted front and rear turn signal bulbs?

if you have you are probably confusing the vehicle. I had an old mercedes i did front and rear with led bulbs back in 07. i had the problem of the bulb flashing like it had taken a good snort of amphetamine, when your bulb goes in indicators in virtually every car the system is designed to flash really fast indicating (no pun intended) a problem with a bulb, it will do this for front rear and side repeaters.

the only possible solution is to look on ebay, you can get resistors to fit inline, only needs to be one bulb each side, but it created a dummy load convincing your vehicle that you have normal bulbs and they are working correctly.

the fact leds last so long and don't have the normal filament issues of normal bulbs, they last forever, so require less checking, although a good driver should do daily if not weekly checks, especially in the darker months.

therefore when you have fitted the resistors and led bulbs it should be a fit and forget scenario, although as said, weekly checks should be observed.

again no pun intended, but hope that sheds some light on the matter.

TheQ · Dec 3, 2015

Mines just started that as I took it to the garage for front axle rebuild service and MOT.
If its the wipac / bolt on bits set up there are no resistors required the flasher unit does the necessary. If mine had shown that problem any other time that's where I'd look first.
When I get it back Saturday I'll let you know the cause.

Coffeelandy · Dec 4, 2015

This only happens when I signal left! Just realised. I have changed all side lights to LED and used the relay supplied by JW Speaker but I'm wondering if I need to get the Wipac Bolt on bits relay? Unless the bloke that fitted it has put the wires in the wrong way??

TheQ · Dec 5, 2015

If the relay you have fitted has a adjustable knob on the top then it is the correct type for running LEDs without resistors.
According to the man who just fixed mine the fault I had was the fact my model of landrover has just one light bulb to display the indicators on the dashboard. Therefore the was a leakage current from one side to the other causing the side not being deliberately indicated to light a bit as well.
My thoughts in your fault,
could be dash board light as it gets more used and gets warmer.
Could be faulty relay,
If led lights are wired up the wrong way round they don't come on at all.

cowasaki · Dec 5, 2015

If you just fit the diodes the problem will disappear. As has been mentioned some Landrovers have two dash warnings and others have one. The issue should only happen with those dashes that have one bulb and it is due to current leak which affects some more than others. The solution is very cheap and very easy and here is what I answered the last person a few days ago:

"Ok simple way to sort this.... Remove the tell tall light and see if the issue goes away. If it does then you have a fault with the tell tale. This is a fault that does affect some cars and not others. There is an easy way to sort it and that is to fit 2 diodes into the wiring...... To do this locate the left indicator and right indicator tell tale wires behind the dash.

Diodes pass current in the direction of the arrow in the circuit OR for a physical diode towards the line.

So get your two diodes and connect one each to the two tell tale wires with the line AWAY from the wires. (You can either crimp the wire directly to the lead of the diode or solder it. I normally cut the lead wire down to about 1.5cm (only on that side) and solder it then slide a sleeve of heat shrink 3cm longer than the body of the diode over it and down the wire.. With this done you should now have the two tell tale wires with a diode attached and heat shrink down their wires. Next job is to solder the two remaining lead wires together and attached about 20cm of wire to them. Now pull the heat shrink over the two diode and shrink it. Now pull another piece of heat shrink down the wire so that it covers everything and shrink that......

You now have the two tell tale wires going to one wire via the diodes and it should be a nice neat job. The 20cm wire now goes to the tell tale bulb and will light up if EITHER indicator is on OR both.

Oh and the diode doesn't really matter too much. 1N4148 1N4001 etc all work fine and cost peanuts...."

Coffeelandy · Dec 11, 2015

That sounds exactly like my issue. I'll get another relay from Bolt on Bits and shove that in.

cowasaki · Dec 11, 2015

Coffeelandy said:
That sounds exactly like my issue. I'll get another relay from Bolt on Bits and shove that in.

Did you read the thread? You need two diodes 1n4001 from ebay would do it at about £1

Coffeelandy · Dec 14, 2015

Yes I did thank you for the detailed explanation. The relay from Bolt on Bits is specifically designed to negate the need for diodes though hence my reason for getting that one.

cowasaki · Dec 14, 2015

Coffeelandy said:
Yes I did thank you for the detailed explanation. The relay from Bolt on Bits is specifically designed to negate the need for diodes though hence my reason for getting that one.

An expensive solution but it does avoid a number of other issues due to having an adjuster to adjust to your vehicles indicator power requirements which avoids them flashing slowly or fast when you fit LEDs/extra lights etc.

If I remember rightly they had two versions with one created specifically to avoid this issue. Might be worth mentioning it unless they've merged them into one now.

zeaphod · Dec 14, 2015

I cant see how a different relay will sort this out, unless it has resistors built into the outputs for each side. Let us know how you get on.

cowasaki · Dec 14, 2015

zeaphod said:
I cant see how a different relay will sort this out, unless it has resistors built into the outputs for each side. Let us know how you get on.

I'm trying to work that out too but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough

Coffeelandy · Dec 14, 2015

I'm a bit crap when it comes to electrics so even though you've very kindly and succinctly spelled it out for me I'm just too inept/lazy to bother when I can buy one of these. Before I do though, any thoughts as to wether this will solve the issue? It sounds like it will?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390728903528?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Kwakerman · Dec 14, 2015

cowasaki said:
An expensive solution but it does avoid a number of other issues due to having an adjuster to adjust to your vehicles indicator power requirements which avoids them flashing slowly or fast when you fit LEDs/extra lights etc.

If its the relay I have on mine the adjuster on the top doesn't adjust the flash rate, what it does do is set the trigger point for the trailer repeater light operation. Basically you turn the indicators on then adjust the knob until the trailer repeater just fails to illuminate / flash. When you then connect a trailer the additional lighting load is enough to exceed the trigger point so the trailer repeater flashes along with the normal indicator warning light. No trailer attached, no trailer repeater light.

Kwakerman · Dec 14, 2015

Coffeelandy said:
I'm a bit crap when it comes to electrics so even though you've very kindly and succinctly spelled it out for me I'm just too inept/lazy to bother when I can buy one of these. Before I do though, any thoughts as to wether this will solve the issue? It sounds like it will?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390728903528?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Take the indicator light out of the dash, if this cures the issue and the flash rate is correct then you will probably get away with just the diode mod. If the flash rate is wrong you will need a specific LED flasher relay to cure that issue, which may cure the other. Worst case you need the relay and diode mod.

Coffeelandy · Dec 14, 2015

It's a bit annoying as JW Speaker supplied an allegedly led friendly relay. I'll try that first. Thanks.

zeaphod · Dec 15, 2015

From what I have seen so far, the relays are supposed to solve the problem of the indicators flashing too fast when LEDs are fitted. If you have a single indicator tell tale lamp on the dash, both sides of the indicators are joined there. With bulb indicators, the resistance of the indicator circuit and the resistance of the tell tale bulb is too high to allow enough current to flow and light the opposite side indicators (opposite to the side you have indicated to). With LED indicators, the current leaked through the tell tale bulb is enough to light the opposite side, as the LEDs require much less current. The solution is to fit resistors to the LED units, to mimic the original bulbs OR fit diodes in the tell tale circuit to stop the current leak. The resistors may be built into some LED units, or are sold separately. Fitting diodes is cheaper, but a bit fiddly, as a soldering iron and some electrical skills are helpful.

Coffeelandy · Dec 15, 2015

You've highlighted three issues, "fiddly", "soldering" and "electrical skills" all three of which I am crap at!!! I'll get the Bolt On relay and let you know the result.

Coffeelandy · Jan 29, 2016

cowasaki said:
If you just fit the diodes the problem will disappear. As has been mentioned some Landrovers have two dash warnings and others have one. The issue should only happen with those dashes that have one bulb and it is due to current leak which affects some more than others. The solution is very cheap and very easy and here is what I answered the last person a few days ago:

"Ok simple way to sort this.... Remove the tell tall light and see if the issue goes away. If it does then you have a fault with the tell tale. This is a fault that does affect some cars and not others. There is an easy way to sort it and that is to fit 2 diodes into the wiring...... To do this locate the left indicator and right indicator tell tale wires behind the dash.

Diodes pass current in the direction of the arrow in the circuit OR for a physical diode towards the line.

So get your two diodes and connect one each to the two tell tale wires with the line AWAY from the wires. (You can either crimp the wire directly to the lead of the diode or solder it. I normally cut the lead wire down to about 1.5cm (only on that side) and solder it then slide a sleeve of heat shrink 3cm longer than the body of the diode over it and down the wire.. With this done you should now have the two tell tale wires with a diode attached and heat shrink down their wires. Next job is to solder the two remaining lead wires together and attached about 20cm of wire to them. Now pull the heat shrink over the two diode and shrink it. Now pull another piece of heat shrink down the wire so that it covers everything and shrink that......

You now have the two tell tale wires going to one wire via the diodes and it should be a nice neat job. The 20cm wire now goes to the tell tale bulb and will light up if EITHER indicator is on OR both.

Oh and the diode doesn't really matter too much. 1N4148 1N4001 etc all work fine and cost peanuts...."

Big Sigh. I fitted the RDX relay, it seems it's great for sorting out the trailer light and flashing speed but didn't solve the issue. I took out the telltale bulb on the dash and the indicators stopped completely. It must be as you suggested so I'll have a crack at your fix and let you know what transpires. Thanks again.

Indicators turn on as hazards randomly

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