Incredibly hard-to-remove lugnuts

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J

James P. H. Fuller

Guest
Just lugnuts on a farm trailer wheel, but I can't get them off.
They've been on for years, probably put on with an air wrench,
certainly good'n'rusted. I've tried socket wrench, cross wrench,
electric impact wrench, they won't budge. I've used a gallon of Liquid
Wrench, no joy. I took the trailer to a garage, they put their air
impact wrench on one nut and just (oh great) rounded it off. The wheel
is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
lugnuts. Can anybody suggest my next step? Blasting? Lightsaber?
Thanks very much! Jim Fuller, [email protected]
 
"James P. H. Fuller" wrote:
>
> Just lugnuts on a farm trailer wheel, but I can't get them off.
> They've been on for years, probably put on with an air wrench,
> certainly good'n'rusted. I've tried socket wrench, cross wrench,
> electric impact wrench, they won't budge. I've used a gallon of Liquid
> Wrench, no joy. I took the trailer to a garage, they put their air
> impact wrench on one nut and just (oh great) rounded it off. The wheel
> is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
> within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
> lugnuts. Can anybody suggest my next step? Blasting? Lightsaber?
> Thanks very much! Jim Fuller, [email protected]

You might try some heat, good propane torch for example. Heat up the
nut and stud as hot as you can, try removing it hot or if that doesn't
work, after it cools a bit. You might try melting some paraffin wax
onto the exposed threads of the stud while it's hot. The heat will wick
the paraffin down the threads. Again try to remove the nut when it is
hot and then after it cools. May take a few cycles to get it to break
free. For the rounded off nut, you could have someone weld another nut
onto the rounded off one and try using that to get it off. Quite often,
the intense heat of arc welding is enough to free the stuck nut.

--
Roger
 

"James P. H. Fuller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just lugnuts on a farm trailer wheel, but I can't get them off.
> They've been on for years, probably put on with an air wrench,
> certainly good'n'rusted. I've tried socket wrench, cross wrench,
> electric impact wrench, they won't budge. I've used a gallon of Liquid
> Wrench, no joy. I took the trailer to a garage, they put their air
> impact wrench on one nut and just (oh great) rounded it off. The wheel
> is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
> within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
> lugnuts. Can anybody suggest my next step? Blasting? Lightsaber?
> Thanks very much! Jim Fuller, [email protected]

Kroil penetrating oil. It is nasty on the hands so wear chemical gloves or
don't touch it.

-John


 

"Generic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "James P. H. Fuller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Just lugnuts on a farm trailer wheel, but I can't get them off.
> > They've been on for years, probably put on with an air wrench,
> > certainly good'n'rusted. I've tried socket wrench, cross wrench,
> > electric impact wrench, they won't budge. I've used a gallon of Liquid
> > Wrench, no joy. I took the trailer to a garage, they put their air
> > impact wrench on one nut and just (oh great) rounded it off. The wheel
> > is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
> > within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
> > lugnuts. Can anybody suggest my next step? Blasting? Lightsaber?
> > Thanks very much! Jim Fuller, [email protected]
>
> Kroil penetrating oil. It is nasty on the hands so wear chemical gloves
or
> don't touch it.
>
> -John
>
>
I've also used PUB Blaster. Stinks like hell but works and you can find
it at most auto parts stores. I think the "heat wrench" is probably going to
be your best bet though.


 


The Ancient One wrote:
> "tranch728" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Generic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>"James P. H. Fuller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>Just lugnuts on a farm trailer wheel, but I can't get them off.
>>>>They've been on for years, probably put on with an air wrench,
>>>>certainly good'n'rusted. I've tried socket wrench, cross wrench,
>>>>electric impact wrench, they won't budge. I've used a gallon of Liquid
>>>>Wrench, no joy. I took the trailer to a garage, they put their air
>>>>impact wrench on one nut and just (oh great) rounded it off. The wheel
>>>>is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
>>>>within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
>>>>lugnuts. Can anybody suggest my next step? Blasting? Lightsaber?
>>>>Thanks very much! Jim Fuller, [email protected]
>>>
>>>Kroil penetrating oil. It is nasty on the hands so wear chemical gloves
>>
>>or
>>
>>>don't touch it.
>>>
>>>-John
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I've also used PUB Blaster. Stinks like hell but works and you can
>
> find
>
>>it at most auto parts stores. I think the "heat wrench" is probably going
>
> to
>
>>be your best bet though.
>>
>>
>
>
> I agree, but I doubt propane will be hot enough unless he has oxygen with
> it, he'll need to heat the nuts redhot at least the way it sounds.
>
>
Here's a thought. Any possibility it's a left-hand thread? If it is a
homemade trailer, and the builder happened to use a wheel/axle from, for
example, a 50's Chrysler product, you may be tightening it further when
you think you're loosening it.

 


"James P. H. Fuller" wrote:
>
> Can anybody suggest my next step? Blasting? Lightsaber?

Use an acetylene torch such as plumbers use for soldering. Keep the heat on the nut
and away from the stud as much as possible. Work the torch around the nut to try to
heat it evenly. About five minutes should do it. I apply heat until I get a slight
reddish glow. Try to remove the nut while it's still hot. I would use a 1/2" or 3/4"
drive socket with a 5' or longer piece of pipe as a cheater on the drive handle. (my
setup is a 1/2" drive Craftsman handle and socket with a piece of 1.5" steel plumbing
pipe for a cheater).

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.
 


Larry wrote:
>
> Here's a thought. Any possibility it's a left-hand thread? If it is a
> homemade trailer, and the builder happened to use a wheel/axle from, for
> example, a 50's Chrysler product, you may be tightening it further when
> you think you're loosening it.

Didn't the old Chrysler products have an "L" stamped on the end of the lugs?

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.
 


"James P. H. Fuller" wrote:
>
> The wheel
> is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
> within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
> lugnuts.

If you're serious about splitting the nuts, this can be done from the end of the nut
rather than the side by using a cold chisel. Lots of work, though.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.
 

"James P. H. Fuller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just lugnuts on a farm trailer wheel, but I can't get them off.
> They've been on for years, probably put on with an air wrench,
> certainly good'n'rusted. I've tried socket wrench, cross wrench,
> electric impact wrench, they won't budge. I've used a gallon of Liquid
> Wrench, no joy. I took the trailer to a garage, they put their air
> impact wrench on one nut and just (oh great) rounded it off. The wheel
> is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
> within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
> lugnuts. Can anybody suggest my next step? Blasting? Lightsaber?
> Thanks very much! Jim Fuller, [email protected]

Drill down one side, on the thread line, with say a 3 or 4 mm drill. Using a
small 6 or 8mm wide engineers chisel, driven axial to the thread, split the
remaining material. This will, at the same time, force the thread open.

Even though the thread will be left with a half drilled hole down one side
they should be still functional. Clean out the thread burrs with a
triangular needle (Swiss) file

dj


 
Find an iron pipe you can hammer/force over the rounded nut (works well on
keyed McGard-style locknuts). Use a pipe wrench to turn iron pipe one way
or the other way. Good luck.

"James P. H. Fuller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just lugnuts on a farm trailer wheel, but I can't get them off.
> They've been on for years, probably put on with an air wrench,
> certainly good'n'rusted. I've tried socket wrench, cross wrench,
> electric impact wrench, they won't budge. I've used a gallon of Liquid
> Wrench, no joy. I took the trailer to a garage, they put their air
> impact wrench on one nut and just (oh great) rounded it off. The wheel
> is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
> within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
> lugnuts. Can anybody suggest my next step? Blasting? Lightsaber?
> Thanks very much! Jim Fuller, [email protected]


 
G.R. Patterson III proclaimed:

>
> "James P. H. Fuller" wrote:
>
>>The wheel
>>is dished in and the lugs are placed in a sort of circular trough
>>within the dish, result being I can't get a nut splitter on the frozen
>>lugnuts.
>
>
> If you're serious about splitting the nuts, this can be done from the end of the nut
> rather than the side by using a cold chisel. Lots of work, though.

Using a good cold chisel aided by a Dremel is pretty good. Slow, but
sometimes just cutting a very thin slice in the nut will allow it to
be removed without the chisel. Best done with a tungsten carbide or
better yet, diamond, bit.
 
Chrysler used left hand threads on one side of the vehicle and right hand
threads on the other side. The mind grows dimmer, though, and I can't remember
which side was which.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

> Larry wrote:
> >
> > Here's a thought. Any possibility it's a left-hand thread? If it is a
> > homemade trailer, and the builder happened to use a wheel/axle from, for
> > example, a 50's Chrysler product, you may be tightening it further when
> > you think you're loosening it.
>
> Didn't the old Chrysler products have an "L" stamped on the end of the lugs?
>
> George Patterson
> If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
> been looking for it.

 


Ken McNairn wrote:
> Chrysler used left hand threads on one side of the vehicle and right hand
> threads on the other side. The mind grows dimmer, though, and I can't remember
> which side was which.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "G.R. Patterson III" wrote:
>
>
>>Larry wrote:
>>
>>>Here's a thought. Any possibility it's a left-hand thread? If it is a
>>>homemade trailer, and the builder happened to use a wheel/axle from, for
>>>example, a 50's Chrysler product, you may be tightening it further when
>>>you think you're loosening it.
>>
>>Didn't the old Chrysler products have an "L" stamped on the end of the lugs?
>>
>>George Patterson
>> If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
>> been looking for it.
>
>
I *think* it was right-hand thread on the right side, and left-hand
thread on left side. The theory, as I recall, was that if a lug nut came
loose, the forward motion of the vehicle would be more likely to keep
the nut from working its way off the stud.

Larry

 


Larry wrote:
>
> I *think* it was right-hand thread on the right side, and left-hand
> thread on left side. The theory, as I recall, was that if a lug nut came
> loose, the forward motion of the vehicle would be more likely to keep
> the nut from working its way off the stud.

That's definitely the idea, as I recall, but I still think they marked the left-hand
threaded lugs. IIRC, they stamped the end of the lug with an "L" on one side of the
car.

BTW, I also remember it being the left side of the car that had the left-hand
threads. I worked at a gas station in the mid-60s, and ran into it in the usual way.
:)

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.
 

"G.R. Patterson III" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Larry wrote:
> >
> > I *think* it was right-hand thread on the right side, and left-hand
> > thread on left side. The theory, as I recall, was that if a lug nut came
> > loose, the forward motion of the vehicle would be more likely to keep
> > the nut from working its way off the stud.
>
> That's definitely the idea, as I recall, but I still think they marked the
left-hand
> threaded lugs. IIRC, they stamped the end of the lug with an "L" on one
side of the
> car.
>
> BTW, I also remember it being the left side of the car that had the
left-hand
> threads. I worked at a gas station in the mid-60s, and ran into it in the
usual way.
> :)

Heh. I remember the same thing on a neighbor's car. We removed the wheels
to paint them silver. It was a 60's Barracuda...


 
Larry wrote:

> I *think* it was right-hand thread on the right side, and left-hand
> thread on left side. The theory, as I recall, was that if a lug nut came
> loose, the forward motion of the vehicle would be more likely to keep
> the nut from working its way off the stud.
>
> Larry
>

Yes. It's actually got a more complicated explanation than that, but
you got the sides correct. Studebaker did the same thing, although they
quit sometime between '56 and '62. Chrysler was using LH thread as late
as 1969 and maybe later (that's just the newest MoPar I've worked on.)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

 


Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> So YOU'RE the guy that put the two right hand thread studs on my old
> Dart... #$%&^%^( <G>

Hey! It was late and that's all we had in stock after I buggered up the originals.
:)

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.
 
I have a car with left-handed lug nuts on the left side (a 1967 Alfa Romeo,
which my wife and I bought new in 1968). Whenever I get tires or have
suspension work done, I try to remember to tell the guys about it. We still
don't know about the lug nuts on the trailer, though, which started this
thread.

Jim Michael
[email protected]

"G.R. Patterson III" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Larry wrote:
> >
> > I *think* it was right-hand thread on the right side, and left-hand
> > thread on left side. The theory, as I recall, was that if a lug nut came
> > loose, the forward motion of the vehicle would be more likely to keep
> > the nut from working its way off the stud.
>
> That's definitely the idea, as I recall, but I still think they marked the
left-hand
> threaded lugs. IIRC, they stamped the end of the lug with an "L" on one
side of the
> car.
>
> BTW, I also remember it being the left side of the car that had the
left-hand
> threads. I worked at a gas station in the mid-60s, and ran into it in the
usual way.
> :)
>
> George Patterson
> If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to
have
> been looking for it.


 
> > I *think* it was right-hand thread on the right side, and left-hand
> > thread on left side. The theory, as I recall, was that if a lug nut came
> > loose, the forward motion of the vehicle would be more likely to keep
> > the nut from working its way off the stud.
> >
> > Larry
> >
>
> Yes. It's actually got a more complicated explanation than that, but
> you got the sides correct. Studebaker did the same thing, although they
> quit sometime between '56 and '62. Chrysler was using LH thread as late
> as 1969 and maybe later (that's just the newest MoPar I've worked on.)



Shouldn't the left hand threads be on the right side, so they'd tend to
tighen upon themselves with forward motion? I'm thinking if the nut was
loose, and the wheel suddenly started spinning forward, a right hand thread
on the right side would tend to spin off, correct? Or is this where that
complicated explanation comes into play? ;o)


 
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:51:56 -0400, "SBlackfoot"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> > I *think* it was right-hand thread on the right side, and left-hand
>> > thread on left side. The theory, as I recall, was that if a lug nut came
>> > loose, the forward motion of the vehicle would be more likely to keep
>> > the nut from working its way off the stud.
>> >
>> > Larry
>> >
>>
>> Yes. It's actually got a more complicated explanation than that, but
>> you got the sides correct. Studebaker did the same thing, although they
>> quit sometime between '56 and '62. Chrysler was using LH thread as late
>> as 1969 and maybe later (that's just the newest MoPar I've worked on.)
>
>
>
>Shouldn't the left hand threads be on the right side, so they'd tend to
>tighen upon themselves with forward motion? I'm thinking if the nut was
>loose, and the wheel suddenly started spinning forward, a right hand thread
>on the right side would tend to spin off, correct? Or is this where that
>complicated explanation comes into play? ;o)

I think you are right. My 1926 Benley has a single spinner on each
wheel, so it is vital that they are threaded so that the turning of
the wheels tightens rather than loosens them. They are left-hand
threads on the right side and right-hand on the left side. So you
always hit the front of the spinner to loosen it.

--
P
 
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