Freelander 1 How easy is it to repower a V6 with an L Series?

This rather dapper looking V6 has come up for sale local...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/land-rover/auction-1103519125.htm

What with my L Series being a bit tatty round the edges - would I be foolish to even contemplate trying to swap my engine/box over to it?

Mechanically, presumably the mounts are the same. I know its missing a peddle! I don't know if the mountings are there that a '99 one would fit to. The rad/intercooler/exhaust would need moving over. All 4 springs would need changing and the fuel system.

Presumably the electronics is the show stopper. The ECU wouldn't talk (or be coded) to the CCU, so I'd have to take that over - and the dash wouldn't talk to either. The diag port would be garbage and the ABS/SRS ECU would also get confused by the (lack of) comms. So really - you're looking at taking the whole electric setup loom & ECUs over and maybe even swapping the Teves for Wabco ABS! Then worry about the switch positions and trying to fit the L Series dash into the facelift pinnacle.

Could I just leave all the V6 wiring, including ECU, there and run the L Series as a free-standing engine not hooked up to any of the other electronic components? This would mean no imobiliser and all the engine related dials (revs/temp/fuel) would be pants.

Nah - non-starter me thinks!

At the end of the day, you can fit virtually any engine in any car, its the complexity of the change.
Unfortunately I will be of little help to you as I dont have the knowledge to guide you, but I would suggest its a full electrical swap as the harnesses will be massively different.
Dont think I would attempt it and I have rebuilt several cars from the bare shell.

GrumpyGel said:

This rather dapper looking V6 has come up for sale local...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/land-rover/auction-1103519125.htm

What with my L Series being a bit tatty round the edges - would I be foolish to even contemplate trying to swap my engine/box over to it?

Mechanically, presumably the mounts are the same. I know its missing a peddle! I don't know if the mountings are there that a '99 one would fit to. The rad/intercooler/exhaust would need moving over. All 4 springs would need changing and the fuel system.

Presumably the electronics is the show stopper. The ECU wouldn't talk (or be coded) to the CCU, so I'd have to take that over - and the dash wouldn't talk to either. The diag port would be garbage and the ABS/SRS ECU would also get confused by the (lack of) comms. So really - you're looking at taking the whole electric setup loom & ECUs over and maybe even swapping the Teves for Wabco ABS! Then worry about the switch positions and trying to fit the L Series dash into the facelift pinnacle.

Could I just leave all the V6 wiring, including ECU, there and run the L Series as a free-standing engine not hooked up to any of the other electronic components? This would mean no imobiliser and all the engine related dials (revs/temp/fuel) would be pants.

Nah - non-starter me thinks!

Click to expand...

Hi GG
This is like going back to UNI lol

"For today's task we shall we shall hypothesise - in writing and to one's self - a series of problems and conclude with a detailed analysis and description of our reasoning as to the logical outcome."

GG's highly detailed and logical deductions -

"Nah - non-starter me thinks!"

LMAO !

Definitely a doctorate out of that mate. ! short and to the point... love it.
A bit like summing up a 6 month uni theses with -"£uck that for a game of soldiers ! - where's the bloody beer ?" -

Made my day GG. You da 'Man'
Joe

Why would you not just use the V6 as is? Fitting the L series is a bit of a backward step in performance.
The swap you are talking about is technically possible, but you'll need to do a total swap of everything with an ECU including the full wiring harness.
It's a huge amount of work for such a backwards step in driving pleasure.

And you think my little projects are tricky! - Mine are nothing in comparison to that. I've just fitted an auxiliary p'point to the luggage area, and am working at fitting a relay arrangement for the DRLs. Getting the mud tyres fitted to the spare rimes on Tuesday 215/75/15 Maxxis. Look out Piano Flat / Whitcomb Road here I come!

Maybe I'll ask the boss for a month off work!

Don't know if you followed the link @Nodge68 but the engine is a typical V6 - spewing extraneous heat outforth from the engine, inviting copious numbers of $$$ to be spent on it, just for it never to be really fixed. I've been there with a D1 V8 - I ain't going back down that road.

Even if it were working perfectly well, I'm not going to double my fuel bill any time soon either! Did I say I used to run a V8?

I'm more than happy with my L Series and the senses tingling performance offered at the dab (forcefully) of the throttle.

Off to bed now, and maybe dream up a conversion plan

Buy it and enjoy it. After an L-Series you'll find it a bit of an eye opener.
Just look after the cooling system!

Can you use an aftermarket dash display?
Something along the lines of this: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/dash-displays/etb-digidash-2-lite-digital-dash-display

Physical fitting of the engine/power train will be identical between engine bays

GrumpyGel said:

Maybe I'll ask the boss for a month off work!

Don't know if you followed the link @Nodge68 but the engine is a typical V6 - spewing extraneous heat outforth from the engine, inviting copious numbers of $$$ to be spent on it, just for it never to be really fixed. I've been there with a D1 V8 - I ain't going back down that road.

Even if it were working perfectly well, I'm not going to double my fuel bill any time soon either! Did I say I used to run a V8?

I'm more than happy with my L Series and the senses tingling performance offered at the dab (forcefully) of the throttle.

Off to bed now, and maybe dream up a conversion plan

Click to expand...

I've looked at the link. Me, I'd buy it as it's a good looking vehicle in a decent colour except maybe the interior. It looks like our UK HSE spec to me, but with export 16" wheels. Being a face lift, you would need to do a lot of changes to the actual wiring as the face lift uses a mix of CAN bus for some ECUs and W bus for others. The early Freelander used a W bus only iirc. My, I'd buy it, fix the engine issue then use it for best. Then use the L series as a daily hack.
Alternatively, you could swap over the entire L series running gear but keep the later V6 stuff like shocks and brakes.
You could make a really nice L series powered V6 face lift, if you have the time.

disco_mikey said:

Can you use an aftermarket dash display?
Something along the lines of this: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/dash-displays/etb-digidash-2-lite-digital-dash-display

Physical fitting of the engine/power train will be identical between engine bays

Click to expand...

Wow - that's uber cool - could mount it on the steering wheel and its F1 meets my old Maestro VDP

I'm not so sure its as road legal as they say though - its not got a MIL light (how it would know when to turn it on?) and no ABS lights. Maybe legal for a pre Y2K car. Not wishing to knock it - cos, as I say, very cool!

Nodge68 said:

I've looked at the link. Me, I'd buy it as it's a good looking vehicle in a decent colour except maybe the interior. It looks like our UK HSE spec to me, but with export 16" wheels. Being a face lift, you would need to do a lot of changes to the actual wiring as the face lift uses a mix of CAN bus for some ECUs and W bus for others. The early Freelander used a W bus only iirc. My, I'd buy it, fix the engine issue then use it for best. Then use the L series as a daily hack.
Alternatively, you could swap over the entire L series running gear but keep the later V6 stuff like shocks and brakes.
You could make a really nice L series powered V6 face lift, if you have the time.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't happen in our family - definitely don't need a "use it for best" car. Our weekend jaunts are taking the dog to the beach or going back/high country fishing - hence why the L Series is looking a bit tatty. Couldn't use it for work - we both work from home. So it would stay in the garage.

GrumpyGel said:

Wouldn't happen in our family - definitely don't need a "use it for best" car. Our weekend jaunts are taking the dog to the beach or going back/high country fishing - hence why the L Series is looking a bit tatty. Couldn't use it for work - we both work from home. So it would stay in the garage.

Click to expand...

The only option then would be to use the shell, suspension and brakes but swap everything else over from your L series. All the interior will be useful except the dash.

Buy a TD4

GrumpyGel said:

This rather dapper looking V6 has come up for sale local...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/land-rover/auction-1103519125.htm

What with my L Series being a bit tatty round the edges - would I be foolish to even contemplate trying to swap my engine/box over to it?

Mechanically, presumably the mounts are the same. I know its missing a peddle! I don't know if the mountings are there that a '99 one would fit to. The rad/intercooler/exhaust would need moving over. All 4 springs would need changing and the fuel system.

Presumably the electronics is the show stopper. The ECU wouldn't talk (or be coded) to the CCU, so I'd have to take that over - and the dash wouldn't talk to either. The diag port would be garbage and the ABS/SRS ECU would also get confused by the (lack of) comms. So really - you're looking at taking the whole electric setup loom & ECUs over and maybe even swapping the Teves for Wabco ABS! Then worry about the switch positions and trying to fit the L Series dash into the facelift pinnacle.

Could I just leave all the V6 wiring, including ECU, there and run the L Series as a free-standing engine not hooked up to any of the other electronic components? This would mean no imobiliser and all the engine related dials (revs/temp/fuel) would be pants.

Nah - non-starter me thinks!

Click to expand...

I know New Zealand is not Canada but $1000 looks like a pretty descent price.

It could be as simple as a failed thermostat or radiator fan.

Test for combustion gas, compression test, that will give you a good idea. The good news about a facelift V6 is that the Jatco JF506 will have the "fixed" reversing piston so no transmission issues.

If you have to look at headgasket, , if you have the time, and enjoy it, I saw some pretty interesting cheap methods on youtube to "machine" the heads.

lol yeh - it might just be the coolant bottle cap!

I bought a D1 V8 when we moved over here 13 years ago - so paid reasonable money for it. It turned out to have similar overheating issues - and the dealer we bought it off turned out to be con artists (not much new there).

I took it to the place these people have taken this car - Canterbury Land Rover. After a new thermostat, they said it could be the viscous fan and sold/fitted me one for $500. It didn't fix anything - and I'm sure they only sold it me because they'd had one lieing around for ages that nobody had bought! So back to Canterbury Land Rover, this time they said they would have to investigate more. They sent the heads away to be tested and sure enough they were soft, and also sure enough they also had a pair at the workshop. So this time $5,000. Of course that didn't fix it either. I didn't use Canterbury Land Rover after that for years, and have only ever bought parts I NEED from them.

I had a new rad put in, forget how many $$$ that was, still didn't fix it.

The only thing that got near to fixing it was a new coolant bottle cap. It wasn't holding the right pressure, and the first new replacement from Canterbury Land Rover was even worse. The 2nd one allowed the car to drive without overheating - but when you stopped, it would spew its coolant everywhere.

I managed to run it for 7 years, but it always had overheating issues right up to the day I sold it.

So the thought of buying another car with overheating issues, especially one so notorious as the KV6 in Freelander - doesn't appeal!

I've never let a garage touch my cars since we sold the Disco. I've done everything on the Freelander (except for changing the belts) and our other cars. I know its cheap, and the thought of trying to fix the cooling issues is a decent challenge - but its still a fair bit of cash to splash just for that. The thought of creating my 'ultimate' F1 - ie Facelift HSE (I know its a Sport!) L Series - is more appealing

You could make a lovely FL1 with the L series to power it, but you'll need time to complete the conversion.
The KV6 doesn't have a problem with cooling as such, not like the old V8 did. What it does suffer from is lack of understanding and post problem maintenance.
The thermostat or it's O rings can leak, which is the catalyst for other problems. I've driven over 100,000 KV6 miles with no problems, even with them making over 200 Bhp. Keeping up maintenance of the cooling system a priority and it'll be OK 99% of the time. If the HGs have been damaged, then they can generally be salvaged, unless bad overheating has occurred.

Just looked at the ad, that's a nice looking freelander.
Looking on the (very) positive side, that could just be a faulty temp sensor
I believe you'd be able to sort that out, and have a very nice KV6.
Or strip it for parts and get more dosh
Mike