Honest answer wanted....De-ACE or not

I need an honest answer please. Many of you will groan "god, not that old chestnut again!" so, sorry.....but:

The ACE system on my 2004 TD5 ES Premium is goosed, pipes leaking from valve block. Taking the pragmatic approach that if one pipe has gone the rest are sure to follow, I've had my local indy quote me for replacing all pipes, seals, banjo washers, fluid, bleed system etc. Come in at "in round figures" £1000 + VAT. Quote for removing ACE and fitting new solid ARB's, drop links, bushes, idler pulley etc. comes in at £600 + VAT.

I like to do some jobs myself, but I don't have access to a pit or a lift and I don't feel capable of tackling either job myself. I knew when I bought this truck not to expect it to be a buy and forget vehicle, nor to expect to run it on a Mondeo budget. But the prospect of a £1200 bill 5 weeks before Christmas blooming hurts. £700 odd isn't party food either but £500 is £500.

I've scoured this forum, looking for views on repair or remove with respect to handling/ride quality, hoping to find answers I want to hear. But truth is, (and it's been suggested by another member in a past thread on this subject), most folks claim that their decisions were the best ever to be made by man. "I swapped my BMW M5 for a Lada Riva 1.2. Best thing I ever did. Brilliant car, the BMW was sh_t.". "I wasn't shafted out of £1500 for a Kirby hoover by some sweaty fat bloke who wouldn't p_ss off out of my house even after 3 hours......Oh no no no. I wanted one! I forced the salesman, who by the way was George Clooney's little brother, to let me have one and I enjoyed doshing out £1500. In fact I made him take £1600. Best hoover in the world. I have to turn it down to min power cos it keeps sucking up next door but one's lawn and he lives half a mile away!". Few people admit that taking the wife, kids, mother-in-law and grandparents on holiday to Magaluf for a quiet, relaxing family holiday was a really badly thought out decision (you get the analogy here no?).

So, I need an honest answer from those who have had or driven both: for the sake of saving £500 quid, if I have the ACE removed, will I turn the infuriating but lovable old girl into a sh_t car?

Sorry for rambling, but head is spinning.

BTW - don't take her off road (unless you count the odd muddy field when taking SWMBO to one of her balmy open water swimmy triathlony thingy do's). She's a 2nd car/Chelsea tractor for most part and takes us plus dogs on a good run to the Scottish highlands once a year. Also tow a 500kg unbraked box trailer around regularly kitted out with all my boat restoration apparatus (well.....smelly, mouldy, nautical general detritus).

DB

Are you sure it is leaky pipes not the seals on the valve block?
I had some of the pipes on my ACE replaced last year and it was quite expensive but the cornering performance is excellent. Before you rush to change the lot work out exactly whats leaking and whats not.

ive just had to change all the pipes and fit another used block as pipes were so corroded into block they wouldnt come out ,though ive just changed individual pipes before ,id repair the ace myself

Ive never driven a d2 so you can take my opinion or not, but I would honestly, considering it's an '04 ES premium, shell out and fix it. Why, I hear you ask??? Well, there are so many of these cars (D2's in general) falling into the hands of dopey chavs who think ripping all this stuff off and bolting on some normal suspension is a cheap fix that any that survive will be sure to hold their value. A bit of retrofitted/bodged suspension says a lot about what you think of your car to any potential future buyer of it. I've always fancied a D2 v8 and when time and drive space allows I will only be looking for the best, and if it attracts a high price then so be it. In the long run I believe that rusty old neglected D2's fitted with standard coils etc will be 10 a penny, and all singing/dancing versions that have been looked after will attract a premium. They still look good now even after 17 years and the price difference between the very good and the downright ugly is huuuge.

I took the ACE out when one of the pipes went.
I don't notice the difference however some will say its night and day.

Had my D2 for 12+ years. No ACE fitted (S model) and never missed it. I tend to keep things original on mine but don't think you'll ruin your ride.
I don't throw it around all over the place but I do drive the thing. 146k miles done and tows fairly regularly with no issues (either my small unbraked trailer loaded up with rubbish or paper bales or the 1100kg horse trailer with 56 bales of hay or sometimes 2 X 600 kg horses!)

i would look at it and try to pin point the fault, ive had 3 with ace, this one i have now without, ace drives far much better, corners great, as what ace stands for, i would fix! but everybody is different, 1 will along in a minute!!!!

biggeeeee said:

I took the ACE out when one of the pipes went.
I don't notice the difference however some will say its night and day.

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I found no difference at all, putting my D1 in for it annual service untill 2004 with a main dealer I received a new model of D2 never the same model so various specs, as a courtesy car, so with or without Ace and the same with the rear springs, so I do wonder sometimes when you see the comments "night and day" are they comparing new on new... I don't think so.
No difference either between my new D1 and a new D2 the dealers let me have to test drive for a weekend a year later one reason for me not in buying one

Repair, see the thread in D2 boys club

This is what I am doing at teh moment, just need to find somewhere to drill my valve block

Replace and forget about it. It's your second car. The ACE system will always be something waiting to go wrong. Good old Anti Roll bars will be less stressful. I heard main dealers used to remove them as it was acknowledged as a over complicated system. Not sure how true this was.

discool said:

I found no difference at all, putting my D1 in for it annual service untill 2004 with a main dealer I received a new model of D2 never the same model so various specs, as a courtesy car, so with or without Ace and the same with the rear springs, so I do wonder sometimes when you see the comments "night and day" are they comparing new on new... I don't think so.
No difference either between my new D1 and a new D2 the dealers let me have to test drive for a weekend a year later one reason for me not in buying one

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D1s roll like a boat in a storm

o0wiz0o said:

Replace and forget about it. It's your second car. The ACE system will always be something waiting to go wrong. Good old Anti Roll bars will be less stressful. I heard main dealers used to remove them as it was acknowledged as a over complicated system. Not sure how true this was.

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Apart from a very small and minor leak mine works perfectly

The repair I will do should last the same as the cars original fitting

I have one pipe leaking a bit and I can notice it in the handling when the oil level is low.

Still need to put new seals in the pipe connection.

We have converted both of our D2 V8's, our son fitted a Terrafirma 2" lift kit with springs etc, I kept mine standard.

If you use the genuine anti-roll bars, fit new drop links and rubber for the bars, it will be fine.

Shock absorbers are worth looking at while you are under there.

We tow a 3500kg show trailer through Europe every year and have had no problems at all with the basic system.





Peter

Many thanks to everyone for your responses. I needed to hear everybody say "ditch the ACE, it's a waste of time, the truck will be better off without it". I think the reason I needed to hear this is because deep down in my heart it's not what I truly believed was the right thing to do. The views have been mixed but the overarching message I am hearing is to keep the vehicle as it is supposed to be and in my heart that is really what I believe to be the right thing.

I guess we are not really owners of these vehicles - more custodians with a duty to take care of them or pass them on to somebody else who can/will.

So, I have decided that repair & restore the ACE system is what I will do. If it costs £1200+ then so be it. As advised by Classikfan, I have had a closer look at what is going on and found that the pipes, though not great and look to have a limited life, are not as rotten as I thought and the leak is in fact coming from the valve block where the bottom front pipe enters. The pipes themselves are dry. So, for £50 for a set of 4 seal kits, I am going to first try and replace the seals on the 4 front pipes.

This will serve 2 things: First, it will give me a chance to see what's what in the valve block (cracked pipe/perished seals/corroded valve block) and second may well be successful and buy me a bit of time to prepare for a full pipe replacement (hopefully in warmer weather). For the sake of £50, a couple of bottles of fluid and a few hours effort, I reckon I haven't much to lose in trying. If I fail and the pipes are shagged, then I'll book her in and have the job lot done right.

I've had to remind myself why I bought this particular vehicle 3 years ago. I did my research and specifically wanted a run out model, TD5 auto ES Premium, in bonatti grey with black interior and scoured the country for the right one. I drove to Preston from Lincoln in howling wind and p.ssing rain to fetch her and was chuffed to bits when I got there. So to spend £700 removing one of her standard features and essentially de-grading her makes no sense really does it? Thanks Discokids for the kick in the nads I needed. No disrespect to those who have opted to remove the ACE. Everyone is different and has different requirements and I appreciate your responses and advice too.

I've summoned (bribed) the help of a pal with OCD, a vehicle lift and a warm workshop (who stores his socks and pants in alphabetical order according to colour who's now wishing he'd said "f..ck off and take your oozing oil infested sprinkler system with you"). While we're at it we're gonna strip and clean out or replace the XYZ switch as that is playing up too. I'll report back with how I get on - either £50 lighter and grinning or £1200+ lighter and sighing in sombre acceptance.

Thanks all once again

DB

when you go to change the seals be prepared that the vehicle may be off the road a few days,pipes dont allways come out very easily some wont at all, pipe becomes very weak around the flare for the collet too

Bin the ACE IMO and fit traditional ARB's. Nowt to go wrong in the future, Did it with on of my D2's and never looked back.

robhew86 said:

Bin the ACE IMO and fit traditional ARB's. Nowt to go wrong in the future, Did it with on of my D2's and never looked back.

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And make ones with working ACE worth more in the future

MJI said:

And make ones with working ACE worth more in the future

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If I was to purchase another D2, I would prefer one without ACE. Maintenance free compared to one with ACE and let's face it, even the 'newest' of D2's are 11yrs old now and ACE WILL go wrong..

MJI said:

And make ones with working ACE worth more in the future

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If they do survive into the future with ACE they will be in a museum, they will be the only ones still with a surviving rear chassis.