Historic classification after engine swap

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
I think its also imporant to think about why the changes are made. The rules clearly allow some sensible upgrades especially for safety and the points system exists to allow modification not prevent it. Other countries with full type approval simpley don't allow modifications full stop. Try changeing and engine in Spain or Italy or even fitting different wheels in Germany (a German freind cut a window in his german reg VW van to make a camper, he couldn't take it back to Germany, he had to scrap it when he went home). So given that the DVLA allow modication we must accept that they are trying to put sensible limits on it and draw a line between reasonble and "taking the p**"
The points system is their attempt and its not bad. The V8 looks like it could be be OK in the "10 years after" exception, but look at the "why?" I had a converstion with the DVLA around this some time ago, their fear was that people would start taking old bodies and put them on new vehicles to avoid tax. Their example at the time was Ford Cortinas where you could use modern Ford parts to creat a tax exempt everyday car and if this took off cost the Treasury a lot of money. It never happened but we do see Defenders plated as Series so there is abuse. Its just that people don't bother to swap the axles, engines and chassis, they just swap the plates. If the vehicle is going to be used as a "historc" ie not a lot of buisness use, not high mileage then expect them to be reasonable. If you are buidling a tax and mot exempt vehicle that is in every way modern (except the log book) then it will look like tax avoidance and expect trouble. A while ago there was a Series for sale that claimed to be "in every way like a modern Defender to drive" it was sold as tax exempt and the only series bits were the panels. Do we want that as a "historic"? Is the person who buys that and drives it "one of us"?
 
Like wise Portugal re wheels/engine/Windows/seats you can't tint Windows if they were not a factory option and then if fitting have to be marked and added to section on the log book for permitted modifications..
 
@rob1miles.

Yes I agree with what you are saying. A lot of European countries are stricter on this sort of thing.
But as I said the other engine options may be more period correct.
The little bit that would concern me is the 30 year bit of the change, which I am guessing is why yours is ok.
The OPs 300tdi was probably not done 30 years age so would need to rely on it being of similar type?

Most of the rules you are quoting relate to being MOT exempt if you loose one point for wrong engine your still legal as long as you have 8 points from the rest of vehicle.

That is correct but to get the 40year complete exemption, Historical class, you need to meet the mot exemption standards first.

Does the engine change if it requires moving mounts on chassis make the chassis classed as modified?...

There is a bit in the DVLA site which says a like for like complete chassis change would still be allowed.
If the original s3 came with V8 mounts then I would have thought moving engine mounts to not be a problem.

And as I have said before different examiners look at things differently. There in could lie a problem.

I must check the rules here in BG as I am about to reg a 1976 Kawasaki in the coming weeks.

J
 
There is a bit in the DVLA site which says a like for like complete chassis change would still be allowed.
If the original s3 came with V8 mounts then I would have thought moving engine mounts to not be a problem.

Don't quite understand your thoughts...like for like means exactly the same therfore moving mounts would be a modification...if it was a s3 with a V8 it would be a 109 so anyone fitting a V8 in an 88 could not claim historic status...I may be interpretating this wrongly as you point out examiners may do as well!
 
@Shippers

A lot of it is in the interpretations, an a minefield to boot.

As you are well aware more than others.

For me to say its a VHI personally it should be as left factory to be true to the words. But as Rob pointed out DVLA are trying to be a bit sympathetic towards this subject. Which I understand, but it does also open the loophole for people to bend the rules a bit.

So saying that should a s3 be giving the status if they were never produced in a TDI? But there are outher bits that with interpretation could allow this.
But then Rob has 1 with a Perkins in it and is fine (I guessing he was referring to the VHI status) I think because of the 30 year change side of the rule?

Plates on the 101 yet?

J
 
There were not any 3.5l V8 series 3's out of the factory.
300tdi 1994.
I have spoken to the DVLA about this.
There was the Stage 1, which is essentially a Series 3. Plus there is good ground to claim the Series 2 thru Defender was just an evolution of a single model. Land Rover certainly market this claim. And there is evidence the DVLA would view a Series 2/3 as the same when looking at towing limits and similar.

Also, for MoT exemption it says about modifications done within 10 years of the end of production. And people have been shoving V8's in Land Rover's since the 1970's.
 
@marjon
Yes agree what you mean..
Historic means to me un-modified but repaired like for like...
Age related to me original chassis and vin but upgraded...
Anything else Q plate...

Alas no still awaiting on IMT issuing final bit of paper...they were already struggling with computer system and now thanks to Brexit are swamped with UK licence holders changing to Portuguese and trying to matriculate out of date vehicles...but heyho this is Portugal you just wait and then when you get paperwork find it was stamped months ago...I'm sure you know what I mean...lol
 
Re my Perkins, obviouly I'm not pressing the DVLA on exactly why its OK, but there are two things that I think make it OK, 1 it was done a long time ago, almost certainly over 30 years ago, and 2, the engine is "in period" so its is contemporary to the vehicle (its actually a year older). I think this is quite imporant as it is a modification in which the parts would all be historic, there is no reduction in the average age of the vehicle. As someone said earlier about the V8s, a 3.5 could be OK but a 4l may not. It may become like the US where the age of the parts matters. The 3.5 V8s were around in the 1970's from scrapped cars and were being fitted in the "historic" period by specials builders. I would think a strong case could be made for (say) a 1972 Rover 3.5 V8 in a 1972 Series (even 88: same manufacturer, same age, same tech, carb, more cylinders) as it is a mod that could have been made at the time. Its harder to argue for a 1990s engine, especially if its got a lot of later tech.
 
Back
Top