Historic classification after engine swap

westone · Mar 16, 2019

Hello all,
please can anyone advise me on the situation for Historic registration with DVLA after an engine swap on a Series 3 Land rover.
I am thinking of buying one which has had an engine swap to a 300TDI,I was told the original failed.
The Land Rover is a 1972 so should be eligible, but the engine is a lot younger, not 40 years old I am told.
The change is not yet recorded in the log book.
thank you

David Leech · Mar 16, 2019

I'm in Ireland but your DVLA has a points system as far as I know, the engine change won't make much of a difference.....

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles

Keep the original registration number
Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.

Part Points
Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1

marjon · Mar 16, 2019

Have a read through this.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ical-interest-substantial-change-guidance.pdf

I was always under the impression that engine had to be like for like. But when reading this, that may not be the case.

J

rob1miles · Mar 16, 2019

4 cyl for 4 cyl swap shoudl be ok, is it diesel for diesel? If so its not much of an issue. Adding the turbo shouldn't affect the tax but amy affect the insurence.

westone · Mar 16, 2019

Thank you all very much, that sorts it out.

Rodeo Joe · Mar 17, 2019

Yes thats right as long as the engine has the same number of cylinders and is the same basic lump( which they all were till 1998, except the V8s and 6 cyl petrol) then its not considered a major change as far as historic status goes.

suburban · Mar 17, 2019

"alternative original equipment engines are not considered a substantial change" surely a conversion to the 6 pot engine is allowed possibly the rover v8 too although maybe less so the v8 as it wasn't officially done till later

marjon said:
Have a read through this.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ical-interest-substantial-change-guidance.pdf

I was always under the impression that engine had to be like for like. But when reading this, that may not be the case.

J

thanks for sharing that, most useful

marjon · Mar 17, 2019

I sort of got from that and also this other little snippet from the DVLA site you may well get away with a v8 too.
Would probably have to be the 3.5 but hey.
Second point in this.

Acceptable changes
It does not count as a ‘substantial change’ if:

changes are made to preserve a vehicle because the original type parts are no longer reasonably available
they are changes of a type which can be demonstrated to have been made when vehicles of the type were in production or within 10 years of the end of production
axles and running gear have been changed to improve efficiency, safety or environmental performance
changes were made to vehicles that were previously used as commercial vehicles, and you can prove the changes were made when the vehicle was used commercially

So hummm ??
Problem with these guidelines is how they are/can be read differently by two peeps.
J

Rodeo Joe · Mar 17, 2019

I don't think a V8 would get past them but a 6cyl petrol might but that wasn't the OPs question, a 300tdi is fine with no probs

marjon · Mar 17, 2019

I understands but it’s good to talk and look at options.

I understand the original OPs question. But

If you read the regs it actually sounds like he could be fine (but I am not putting money on that). But to add to that to be more period correct the 6cly and V8 is actually closer than the 300tdi

as they came in on that model from 1971, (correct me if I am wrong please)
300tdi came in 1994, so would it actually fit the rules?
So why would a V8 not pass?

J

Edit date as below info of 300tdi

Rodeo Joe · Mar 17, 2019

There were not any 3.5l V8 series 3's out of the factory.
300tdi 1994.
I have spoken to the DVLA about this.

rob1miles · Mar 17, 2019

It also depends when, if the change was made "in period" you can get through. I seem to recall the MOT question (I know that's not tax, but its a guide to the thinking) is something like "more than 30 years ago". My Series is a 1970 registed to civvy use in 78 and fitted with a 3.3L Perkins sometime around 1980 when the engine would have been around 11 years old (its a 69 engine). It was recorded with the DVLA and there seems (fingers crossed) to be no problem. A couple of years ago I got the DVLA to issue a new period plate (an H) as it was on a T from 78. No problem and they did it free.

marjon · Mar 17, 2019

Rodeo Joe said:
There were not any 3.5l V8 series 3's out of the factory.
300tdi 1994.
I have spoken to the DVLA about this.

And can you please tell us what DVLA said.

J

marjon · Mar 17, 2019

Rodeo Joe said:
There were not any 3.5l V8 series 3's out of the factory

Not sure about that. What was the stage 1,introduced in the series 3 79/80, so same model?

J

Shippers · Mar 17, 2019

marjon said:
Not sure about that. What was the stage 1,introduced in the series 3 79/80, so same model?

J

The Stage 1 was I believe a S3 109 with longer bonnet etc to accomodate the V8 which resulted in the slab front now recognisable in 90/defender's...

marjon · Mar 17, 2019

Yes but still an s3. In this context of discussion.

J

Shippers · Mar 17, 2019

marjon said:
Yes but still an s3. In this context of discussion.

J

Exactly thats what I ment..

Blackburn · Mar 17, 2019

Most of the rules you are quoting relate to being MOT exempt if you loose one point for wrong engine your still legal as long as you have 8 points from the rest of vehicle.

Shippers · Mar 17, 2019

Blackburn said:
Most of the rules you are quoting relate to being MOT exempt if you loose one point for wrong engine your still legal as long as you have 8 points from the rest of vehicle.

Does the engine change if it requires moving mounts on chassis make the chassis classed as modified?...

Blackburn · Mar 18, 2019

Yes but many do modify chassis.
Richards provide replacement chassis with different engine mounts at buyers request.
A full vehicle inspection by VOSA would probably take registration away and put it on a new plate.
300tdi can be fitted without modifying chassis but it requires a complicated bracket.

Historic classification after engine swap

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