Help, what did I do ?

Rocky Ward · May 22, 2016

My 2004 TD4 Facelift was running ok but I was trying to sort out the warm start problem.

I decided to replace the glowplugs, which of course involves taking the air intake manfold off.

I tested the plugs with a meter and found that 3 of the NGK plugs we faulty, confirmed by the fact that they were covered in black slime.

I had no problems with the job but on reassembly the truck turns over but refuses to fire.

Prior to this I had plugged in a fault code reader which showed ZERO faults stored, the same reader now shows a few issues, which are probably downstream faults not causes.

The car was sat for a week in pieces while I waited for parts, in that time a pool of diesel began to form near the rear drivers side wheel it appears to be coming from the fuel separator, I recently fitted a new Mahle fuel filter again I had no problems with the job and did drain the separator briefly and have double checked it is tight, I suspect that it is just the lowest point and the leak is from above, maybe the pump.

I cracked the fuel lines and bled the air out, there was a only a small amount in there.

Does anyone have any idea ?

Will be taking back wheel off to inspect leak tomorrow.

Lowbank · May 22, 2016

I would investigate the fuel leak, and check the pump is running. you may be drawing air in before the pump and therefore no fuel getting through.

that would be my guess, and it is a guess

Rocky Ward · May 23, 2016

The leak is just a slight weep from the separator and as I was able to bleed the injector pipes then I can't see how it can be air getting in as there is fuel pressure.

Have pulled intake manifold off and rechecked my work and can't see anything wrong.

Have swapped the big yellow relays round in case one has blown.

I have since noticed that both of the amber engine warning lights stay illuminated on pre-ignition stage.

Am going to buy a NOID test kit to see if there is juice to the injectors.

Sigh.

Nodge68 · May 23, 2016

Is the wiring to the cam sensor in place? A faulty cam sensor can also cause hot starting issues.
Have you tried a quick blast of Easystart?

Rocky Ward · May 23, 2016

Just to be clear I started out with a perfectly working vehicle that had an irritating warm start problem.

I now have a vehicle that doesn't fire at all.

I am sure there is nothing loose or disconnected by mistake, I have gone over it with a fine tooth comb and the weeping diesel was just from the separator tap.

I am borrowing a Diesel engine cylinder compression tester tonight, my fear is that the timing chain has failed but its going to be a weird one as it drove perfectly when I parked it up to swap the glow plugs.

If it has compression then my next move as you say is to squirt some Easy Start into the air filter housing with filter removed as it is turning over to see it the engine is mechanically sound.

I am hoping it is a fuel pressure issue as when I crank it with the injector nuts undone it only throws up a tiny amount of diesel mist out of number 1 rather than a strong jet from all 4.

The fuel pump is running I can hear it.

Fingers crossed.

Nodge68 · May 23, 2016

I reckon that the cam sensor has failed. It's not unknown for them to just fail.

andyfreelandy · May 23, 2016

Cam sensor throws a fault code up - even if intermittent. He says from experience. My fault symptom was failing to restart when hot.

Rocky Ward · May 23, 2016

I have no fault codes still.

I only bought truck a month ago, it had many issues so only paid £400.

It only started properly from stone cold in morning, after fitting a new fuel filter it would then do a warm restart, so if I popped to the shop first thing it would start from stone cold and once I got back in car at shop but would be a swine to start a few hours later.

Thats why I was replacing the glow plugs, 3 turned out to be dead so I was sure I had fixed it.

Had improved running in that month greatly by fitting an egr bypass, crank case breather mod, 5 piece set of DPH performance silicon hoses and a new turbo vent filter.

Last thing I did before fitting the glow plugs was to treat it to an oil change with fully synthetic shell posh oil, Fram oil filter, a K&N air filter and 500ml of Restore Engine treatment.

Have thrown nearly £300 at it, so very annoyed if engine is now scrap.

Was planning on keeping it, its been well looked after all its life it was a 1 owner car when I bought it, serviced annually on the button no expense spared.

Sigh.

Rocky Ward · May 23, 2016

The only thing I did when fitting glow plugs that might have been an error was that I was very generous with the old degreasing spray.

It was a Bilt Hamber water based spray.

It might have got into the connectors I suppose, I had not got the battery disconnected which in hindsight was probably a mistake.

I have pulled all the connectors apart I can find and cleaned them up a couple were moist but that might have been from the diesel when I cracked the injector pipes to bleed the air.

Karl.

Nodge68 · May 23, 2016

Glow plugs won't stop it starting as the TD4 should have plenty of compression. They are only there to reduce the cranking time until it fires and improve running after its started. At this time of year, glow plugs are not really needed.
In my experience, things like faulty cam or crank sensors, don't come up on standard OBD2 readers. If that's what you are using, then that would explain the engine light without a code. The best thing is trying some easy start. If it fires, it's a fuelling issue.

GrumpyGel · May 23, 2016

Presumably this 'must' be a fueling issue (unless a pigeon has got stuck in the air inlet hoses!).

If it fires with easy start - presumably it could still easily be a cam/crank sensor - ie the ECU isn't getting a signal so isn't opening the injectors.

Did I not read on a thread somewhere that only 1 of these sensors is used for starting - the other only comes in once its running. I seam to remember it was the crank sensor, but then how would the ECU know what cycle it was on?

hd3 · May 23, 2016

Did I not read on a thread somewhere that only 1 of these sensors is used for starting

that be the cam-shaft sensor .. on the td4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

if the crank-shaft sensor fails .. the m47r engine pdf .. states that the engine will not start or run .. be dead ..
rover rons' pages suggest that it can gradually degrade causing hard-to-start .. and running issues ..

cam-shaft sensor only used for starting .. not running ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i think some of the sensors get exposed to oil ..
if mineral based oil .. it could get burnt on the sensor .. 'coked' ..
leading to sensor issues ..
( in theory )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GrumpyGel · May 23, 2016

hd3 said:
that be the cam-shaft sensor .. on the td4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

if the crank-shaft sensor fails .. the m47r engine pdf .. states that the engine will not start or run .. be dead ..
rover rons' pages suggest that it can gradually degrade causing hard-to-start .. and running issues ..

cam-shaft sensor only used for starting .. not running ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i think some of the sensors get exposed to oil ..
if mineral based oil .. it could get burnt on the sensor .. 'coked' ..
leading to sensor issues ..
( in theory )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I got it completely arse about face then - 2 for starting and 1 for running - thought there was a difference though

Alibro · May 23, 2016

After changing the fuel filter on my TD4 I pulled out the last leak back plug and turned on the ignition until fuel pumped out.
Not sure if that was correct or not but it fired first time. Is it possible yours just isn't bled properly?

Rocky Ward · May 24, 2016

Compression test done, it shows no problems.

Have read this useful article ...
http://tuning-diesels.com/75Zt/R75faults.htm#TD4

And looking at what many of you guys have said I shall remove the camshaft sensor next and stick it in the freezer for a while, apparently this fools it enough to start the engine ( if it is indeed faulty ).

Will be re-assembling engine as well ready for Easy Start test as next step.

Thanks, Karl.

Alibro · May 24, 2016

That's a superb reference guide. I saved it to my PC just in case someone takes it down off T'internet.

Don't suppose this bit is relevant
ENGINE WON'T START AFTER FLAT BATTERY CHANGED. If you crank the engine with an almost flat battery this can cause the immobiliser to lose its code and it therefore immobilises the engine even when the cranking speed is normal.

Rocky Ward · May 24, 2016

Its a brand new battery and it was and is ok before and after the problem started, good tip though.

Any idea how to reset immobiliser etc just in case ?

I reassembled the engine this morning and put the cam sensor in the freezer for an hour, no help.

Mind you the sensor was covered in black sludge, was sure that was the fault but no joy.

Off to buy a can of Easy Start now.

Alibro · May 24, 2016

Not 100% sure on the Freelander but on my MGF which is similar you stand outside the car and push the unlock 5 times quickly. The big difference between the Freelander and the MG is on the MG the starter won't even try to turn the engine but I believe the Freelander will turn over but won't start.
There are lots of immobiliser related threads here so a quick search should answer your question.

Nodge68 · May 24, 2016

Rocky Ward said:
The leak is just a slight weep from the separator and as I was able to bleed the injector pipes then I can't see how it can be air getting in as there is fuel pressure.

Have pulled intake manifold off and rechecked my work and can't see anything wrong.

Have swapped the big yellow relays round in case one has blown.

I have since noticed that both of the amber engine warning lights stay illuminated on pre-ignition stage.

Am going to buy a NOID test kit to see if there is juice to the injectors.

Sigh.

The use of a Noid light is very dodge. Common rail injectors run at 80 volts not 12. So a Noid light would be useless. Additionally it does not provide the right resistance so could damage the output stage on the ECU. The only way to test the injector feed would be to use an inductive pickup or oscilloscope.

You can test the crank sensor with a multi meter as it's an inductive sensor. So cranking the engine will generate a voltage at its contacts. The cam sensor can't be tested like that, but can be back probed and scoped. If the ECU doesn't see a signal from the crank and cam sensor, it won't fire the injectors. Additionally, if the ECU doesn't get a high pressure rail reading, it again won't fire the injectors.

Rocky Ward · May 24, 2016

It did try and run on the Easy Start so I guess this is a good thing.

I have decided to gamble and bought a new cam sensor, will see in a couple of days if it was the correct decision.

Karl.

Help, what did I do ?

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