Help police have seized my pride and joy

warrior said:

When I bought the 90 o have now, I have known the lad years, I know where he bought it from when he built it and when he spayed it a different colour,

When I bought it the log book said green as it used to be but its blue, well on the outside there's still a few green bits, as he was a mate he just gave me the logbook and said send it off,

Befor I did I filled in my details in the new keeper and I also filled in the colour change part,

Came back in my name with new colour, Simple

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I've done this many, many times with bikes but didn't think it was possible to change body type. mainly after reading all the LEZ threads.

So essentially the real issue is that the chassis was changed but the number was not stamped on it. Can't see how they expect a vehicle to be 20-30 years old and not have some major components replaced at some point in it's life, whether that's spread out over time or in one big overhaul. What's going to happen next, we need to get an SVA inspection when you change a bulb?

Dan_Trials said:

So essentially the real issue is that the chassis was changed but the number was not stamped on it. Can't see how they expect a vehicle to be 20-30 years old and not have some major components replaced at some point in it's life, whether that's spread out over time or in one big overhaul. What's going to happen next, we need to get an SVA inspection when you change a bulb?

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No
they expect peeps to know the

its an IVA test now, and yu get a Q plate.

Registering a radically altered vehicle

The registration of radically altered vehicles covers vehicles which are substantially altered from their original specification, but which are not kit conversions. In these cases the vehicle components used from the original vehicle will be given a numerical value in order to retain the original registration mark.

Allocating a vehicle registration mark
The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark. If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used an Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA), enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA), single vehicle approval (SVA) or motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

Scoring components
The following values will be allocated to the major components used:

• chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
• suspension = 2 points
• axles = 2 points
• transmission = 2 points
• steering assembly = 2 points
• engine = 1 point

Where there is evidence that two vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie 'cut and shut') a 'Q' mark will be allocated, IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA will be required.

Vehicle identification number
This is a legal requirement for all vehicles used on the public highway to carry a vehicle identity number (VIN). This may be lost when a vehicle is substantially rebuilt, particularly in the case of kit vehicles where the chassis or bodyshell may not have been stamped by the manufacturer. In such circumstances the DVLA local office will allocate a replacement VIN. The DVLA local office will issue an authorisation letter and registration will not take effect until the Agency receives confirmation that the vehicle has been stamped with the correct identity.

Registration of vehicles without identity
The following procedures must be followed when making application for the registration and first licensing of a vehicle without identity:

• you should use your nearest DVLA local office
• applications from outside a DVLA local office's catchment area will be refused
• you will be asked to produce documentation confirming your name and address, the link below gives more information

• How to register your vehicle and identity checks

• you will be asked to produce official receipts from identifiable suppliers for the components used in a rebuild. The authenticity of receipts may be checked. They will be stamped by the DVLA local office before return

All vehicles without identity (VIN and registration mark) will be inspected by DVLA and referred to the police. Applicants who rebuild vehicles and can prove the origins of the components need not be concerned. However, if the police believe a vehicle to be stolen DVLA will refuse to register and it may be impounded.

Be aware
Prospective purchasers of vehicles without identity are advised to exercise caution. If a vehicle is suspected of being stolen both it and the money paid for it may be lost.

Keep a vehicle’s original registration number
A rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

• the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)
• a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original (car or light van)
• the original unmodified frame (motorbike)
• a new frame of the same specification as the original (motorbike)

You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle from the following lists.

For cars or light vans:
suspension (front and back)

• steering assembly
• axles (both)
• transmission
• engine

My rebuild scores 10! BUT I would be concerned as to where my confiscated Landy was being stored IE under cover and locked secured away from other vehicles shes my pride and joy after all

I think that if the o p wants it back he needs to push forward with proving to the dvla what's been done, convince them, and they will give definitive answers to the police.

chris7 said:

My rebuild scores 10! BUT I would be concerned as to where my confiscated Landy was being stored IE under cover and locked secured away from other vehicles shes my pride and joy after all

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"away from other vehicles"??????????? Not a lot of chance there I'm afraid. Most likely held by a local recovery agent, along with all the other uninsured, drunk-driven, accident-damaged, over-loaded, driver-arrested, or whatever...vehicles that have been lifted in recent weeks/months/years. It may be your pride and joy, but to them it is just another suspect vehicle. Most operators will assess the risk of theft attached to each vehicle - they don't want to be explaining why it got stolen from their pound afterall - and locate it accordingly. Very few will be under cover.

The main issue here as I see it is a new chassis direct from the manufacturer is allowed but if it's 2nd hand or altered it needs inspection, a new number and possibly a Q plate.

Whether a Puma chassis counts as a direct replacement anyway is a little questionable before you start moving engine mounts.

It's a grey area and if you rebuild an old 90 so it looks like a Puma and hasn't got the right numbers in place it's not really a surprise that questions are going to be asked.

I hope it's true that they would have to prove theft but if you don't want to wait around forever while they investigate the more evidence you have its a legit rebuild the better.

blue beasty said:

The main issue here as I see it is a new chassis direct from the manufacturer is allowed but if it's 2nd hand or altered it needs inspection, a new number and possibly a Q plate.

Whether a Puma chassis counts as a direct replacement anyway is a little questionable before you start moving engine mounts.

It's a grey area and if you rebuild an old 90 so it looks like a Puma and hasn't got the right numbers in place it's not really a surprise that questions are going to be asked.

I hope it's true that they would have to prove theft but if you don't want to wait around forever while they investigate the more evidence you have its a legit rebuild the better.

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yu might get away with a receipted chassis from Richards or similar, but off e-bay??????

One other thing... what happened to your old chassis? Do you have a certificate of destruction, because if not, there could be another motor driving round with your chassis number .

DVLA dont like that sort of thing

The Mad Hat Man said:

No
they expect peeps to know the

its an IVA test now, and yu get a Q plate.

Registering a radically altered vehicle

The registration of radically altered vehicles covers vehicles which are substantially altered from their original specification, but which are not kit conversions. In these cases the vehicle components used from the original vehicle will be given a numerical value in order to retain the original registration mark.

Allocating a vehicle registration mark
The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark. If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used an Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA), enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA), single vehicle approval (SVA) or motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

Scoring components
The following values will be allocated to the major components used:

• chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
• suspension = 2 points
• axles = 2 points
• transmission = 2 points
• steering assembly = 2 points
• engine = 1 point

Where there is evidence that two vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie 'cut and shut') a 'Q' mark will be allocated, IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA will be required.

Vehicle identification number
This is a legal requirement for all vehicles used on the public highway to carry a vehicle identity number (VIN). This may be lost when a vehicle is substantially rebuilt, particularly in the case of kit vehicles where the chassis or bodyshell may not have been stamped by the manufacturer. In such circumstances the DVLA local office will allocate a replacement VIN. The DVLA local office will issue an authorisation letter and registration will not take effect until the Agency receives confirmation that the vehicle has been stamped with the correct identity.

Registration of vehicles without identity
The following procedures must be followed when making application for the registration and first licensing of a vehicle without identity:

• you should use your nearest DVLA local office
• applications from outside a DVLA local office's catchment area will be refused
• you will be asked to produce documentation confirming your name and address, the link below gives more information

• How to register your vehicle and identity checks

• you will be asked to produce official receipts from identifiable suppliers for the components used in a rebuild. The authenticity of receipts may be checked. They will be stamped by the DVLA local office before return

All vehicles without identity (VIN and registration mark) will be inspected by DVLA and referred to the police. Applicants who rebuild vehicles and can prove the origins of the components need not be concerned. However, if the police believe a vehicle to be stolen DVLA will refuse to register and it may be impounded.

Be aware
Prospective purchasers of vehicles without identity are advised to exercise caution. If a vehicle is suspected of being stolen both it and the money paid for it may be lost.

Keep a vehicle’s original registration number
A rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

• the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)
• a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original (car or light van)
• the original unmodified frame (motorbike)
• a new frame of the same specification as the original (motorbike)

You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle from the following lists.

For cars or light vans:
suspension (front and back)

• steering assembly
• axles (both)
• transmission
• engine

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I duz know the rulez I just forgot a few details Mainly that this guy changed the engine mounts (so modified chassis) and the bonnet (not original spec body).

the "they expect peeps to know the rules" was in reply to "Can't see how they expect a vehicle to be 20-30 years old and not have some major components replaced at some point in it's life, whether that's spread out over time or in one big overhaul."

Dan_Trials said:

I duz know the rulez I just forgot a few details Mainly that this guy changed the engine mounts (so modified chassis) and the bonnet (not original spec body).

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The issue for the OP though is maybe a little more complex.

It's a rebuild of what's substantially a 1999 90 on a Puma chassis (or possibly a Td5 chassis that had Puma suitable mounts) on an 1988 ID.

I'm not saying it's illegal but convincing plod isn't going to be simple.

In truth it should probable be inspected and put on a Q plate or possibly a 99 plate if they accept the chassis as a manufacturers replacement for an older model.....which is open to interpretation.

All the above is why I'd stamp a new chassis. Not because it's what you're supposed to do but because it makes it far less likely someone will start asking questions for which there isn't any definitive answers.

blue beasty said:

The issue for the OP though is maybe a little more complex.

It's a rebuild of what's substantially a 1999 90 on a Puma chassis (or possibly a Td5 chassis that had Puma suitable mounts) on an 1988 ID.

I'm not saying it's illegal but convincing plod isn't going to be simple.

In truth it should probable be inspected and put on a Q plate or possibly a 99 plate if they accept the chassis as a manufacturers replacement for an older model.....which is open to interpretation.

All the above is why I'd stamp a new chassis. Not because it's what you're supposed to do but because it makes it far less likely someone will start asking questions for which there isn't any definitive answers.

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Yeah I was thinking the same, stamp the chassis and they will probably poke no further.

Dan_Trials said:

Yeah I was thinking the same, stamp the chassis and they will probably poke no further.

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that aint gonna be easy in a police pound

The Mad Hat Man said:

that aint gonna be easy in a police pound

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Oh no, not for the OP, he's fakked

Hmmmm stamping a Chassis with another's ID number? Wonder what would happen if GOD FORBID an accident that resulted in serious injury or worse and the vehicle is put under a microscope?

chris7 said:

Hmmmm stamping a Chassis with another's ID number? Wonder what would happen if GOD FORBID an accident that resulted in serious injury or worse and the vehicle is put under a microscope?

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with a new chassis?

chris7 said:

Hmmmm stamping a Chassis with another's ID number? Wonder what would happen if GOD FORBID an accident that resulted in serious injury or worse and the vehicle is put under a microscope?

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I was talking about a direct chassis swap.

In the OPs case if it doesn't reach the points for either the 88 or the 99 IDs it requires inspection anyway and to be issued with new numbers.

chris7 said:

Hmmmm stamping a Chassis with another's ID number? Wonder what would happen if GOD FORBID an accident that resulted in serious injury or worse and the vehicle is put under a microscope?

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It isn't really a safety issue so as long as the number was on the chassis, I don't see why it would get much attention, other than writing it down.

And how do they know when the number was stamped? So long as you have the right number on the chassis, and the chassis is otherwise fully legal, cant see it is an issue?

Lh90tdi said:

My solicitor said they are checking it for suspected stolen parts and the other vehicle I bought was a cat b (I have a friend with a scrap yard so the chassis went back to him once the salvageable parts were removed) I retained the original 1988 F registration, I've got photos of the build and receipts for every part I bought down to the stainless floor screws, I spent a small fortune probably more than it would of cost just to buy one already done but once you start it's hard to stop buying for them! Hopefully it ends well as I can't afford to buy another!

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Is this the same vehicle ?