HELP!!!! Overheating V8. Going mad here....

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you not kidding i went down the road of new block with top hat linners just the block with pistons £1700 the the job of rebuilding not to say the cost rover say use this stuff thats why i put it in i did not like boging but after only having it 3 weeks and had allready done heads twice i could not part with that sort of money, but will get round to doing proper job befor to long. i also think what you are doing is good as 3.5 is better engine not been put to its limit
 
davieladd said:
I couldn't find a way to make mine work. I tried EVERY THING. I lived with it for a while but it boiled over on me whilst I was towing a heavily loaded horse box in a single lane contra-flow. My pride wouldn't let me cause a traffic jam so I plodded on. By the time I pulled over the oil had burned away and when I poured fresh oil in, in boiled on the rocker! It got me home, but that was the end of it's useful life!

I'm currently trying to convert a 3.5 motor to run in place of a 4.6 in a p38. Replacement second hand 4.6s are IMHO a waste of time as they'll either be cracked already or about to crack. You could get the liner machined out, the block welded up, re-bored and a top hat put in but that'll be expensive. I'm told that Land Rover didn't see this as being an acceptable solution for warranty repairs so they commisioned Cosworth to make a replacement block. I've never seen one but I would imagine they'll cost more than a quid.
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What a travesty that after 74000 miles an engine is scrap, along with nearly every other engine from that period. LR deserve to go out of business, trading on their old name which lets face it was crap to begin with. I know a load of you will hark on about your love for the brand but it took BMW to make it into a properly built car and engine. It really annoys me that a seven year old car is good for nothing. It seems I now have a low mileage Rangey for sale with the mandatory knackered engine. Anyone?
 
have a look at iron tite it may just save you as i said mine been in 5 months touch wood no more overheating lots of people on here had same problem read fifers thread
 
j the range said:
have a look at iron tite it may just save you as i said mine been in 5 months touch wood no more overheating lots of people on here had same problem read fifers thread
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I've already used it. Apart from junking the £350 water pump and god knows what else it cost me £200 to get it put in as I don't have the space. Didn't work anyway.
 
treborretnim said:
Perhaps it needs something as simple as a thermostat as the old one may be glued up with all the rubbish I've poured down it?

I'm in Bucks by the way...
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You don't say whether they replaced the thermostat when they did the water pump. They should have done. Coming from the era of 50's and 60's runbbish, thermostats were a consumable item and were always changed at the first hint of problems before doing anything else. You have to change that (if it wasn't done when they did the water pump) before you do anything else (apart from sniff tests etc).

I agree with what you're saying about how can it be knackered with a cracked block and/or slipped liner if it doesn't overheat all the time. Daviladd's explanation was as good as any I've heard. I rather think though if you had a slipped liner, you would be getting overheating / pressurization all the time. See what the sniff and compression tests throw up anyway. Good luck.
 
J, for my next project I'm going to try grinding the main journals down on my old 4.6 crank to fit in a 3.5 block then using the 4.6 con rods and pistons with it to make what I think will be about a 3.8, but with more material behind the liners. Actually it'll be the project after my next project. :)
 
out of curiosity remove the spark plugs and see if any of them look like they have been steem cleaned,also get hold of a fibre optic torch and try and look at the piston crowns through the spark plug holes,if any of the crowns look like a steam cleaner has been in there then it is more than likely the block if they don,t then it could be a problem in the coolant system,like a small blockage,of some sort,a good coolant flush to clean out the block,remove the rad and flush it through top to bottom and vise versa,and clean all the hoses out,also flush the heater matrix out in both directions,and test the thermostat in a pan of boiling water and a thermometer,and record the reading.letus know how you get on
 
treborretnim said:
What a travesty that after 74000 miles an engine is scrap, along with nearly every other engine from that period. LR deserve to go out of business, trading on their old name which lets face it was crap to begin with. I know a load of you will hark on about your love for the brand but it took BMW to make it into a properly built car and engine. It really annoys me that a seven year old car is good for nothing. It seems I now have a low mileage Rangey for sale with the mandatory knackered engine. Anyone?
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imo R/R should be held accountable for the slipped liner/porous block .. that is a travesty but to say it took bmw to build it properly isnt quite right, wasnt it 1994/95 they bought r/r? shouldnt they shoulder some of the blame for the crap engines? with yours being a 2002 if it turns out it is knackered wouldnt it be worth the couple of grand to put a new long/short engine in? i would if it were mine... anyways good luck whatever happends or whatever you decide to do :)
 
Will do, but as I can't do the work myself it may be some time....

Does anyone know any mechanic who knows anything about Range Rovers? The one I use doesn't so I'm basically just paying him to learn which is infuriating...
It would be alot better if I could find someone who could just do the sniff test, check the internals and sort the rad and thermostat in one job.
 
nathan5346 said:
imo R/R should be held accountable for the slipped liner/porous block .. that is a travesty but to say it took bmw to build it properly isnt quite right, wasnt it 1994/95 they bought r/r? shouldnt they shoulder some of the blame for the crap engines? with yours being a 2002 if it turns out it is knackered wouldnt it be worth the couple of grand to put a new long/short engine in? i would if it were mine... anyways good luck whatever happends or whatever you decide to do :)
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Point taken (although BMWs first effort was the 2002 L series which I think everyone agrees is in a different league)... but where on earth do you get a new long/short engine and get it fitted all for a couple of grand?
 
treborretnim said:
I've already used it. Apart from junking the £350 water pump and god knows what else it cost me £200 to get it put in as I don't have the space. Didn't work anyway.
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i changed me mates water pump in his 4.6 and lucky that cured his overheating, the pump cost £60 and took a coulpe of hours to fit, that shows how cheap some things can be done and as j t range said have a look at fiffers threads.... complete novice never worked on an engine before and he sorted his out with lots of patience and the help of the good people on here.. anythings possible without having to pay extortionate prices
 
Shud have mentioned the fitting would cost extra, theres plenty options open to you 1st would be to get it correctly diagnosed then take it from there, take a look at gavbriggs posts he had slipped liners and his r/r is a labour of love there are many knowledgable peeps on ere who im sure would be willing to offer help and advice... it could always go missing :behindsofa: :D
 
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treborretnim said:
Yes but....
I just don't believe it as a 'knackered engine' would be knackered full stop. A knackered engine would imply major parts being dead or dying. The engine at the moment runs perfectly when it isn't overheating (3 times in six months). I ran up to Yorkshire last month at 90+ both ways and it didn't use a drop of water or oil.
Something just doesn't add up with the 'knackered engine' diagnosis.
Thanks for replying though...
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i am sorry but i have to pull you up on this post, a knackered block is just that, it doesnt mean it is beyond repair.

if the liners are slipped that means the combustion gasses can escape under compression past the head gasket fire ring and into the water galleries and on to the coolant system. thus resulting in pockets of gas and/or gasses pushing water out of the expansion vessel.

the reason that liners slip is the expansion and contraction rates of the liners and block bieng different as they are constructed: liners = ductile iron, block aluminium alloy.

this is obviously brought on by some excessive heat/cooling process which as yet has not been explained to me other than an overheat can cause this.

now if you dont believe me, pop round and i can show you examples of slipped and non slipped liners.

having been through the process in the last 12 months i can assure you that if the liners are slipped no amount of 'wizerd's sperm additives' will seal the liners and gasses from the water ways!

that said, there are degrees of severity and other problems which can cause similar symptoms but none i know of will produce combustion gasses in the coolant system other than gasses escaping via the usually sealed combustion chamber. head gasket, cracked heads, slipped liners and 'porous block' all require a strip down, again cracked heads are less severe than slipped liners as they can be changed to a good pair in 6 hours!

a sniff test (hydrocarbon in the coolant test) will tell you if there is gasses present not where they are coming from!

the lpg vapouriser will give you the same symptoms as slipped liner if it is allowing lpg gas into the coolant system but i dont think it will show on the sniff test.

the cheapest option available to you at the moment is to get the test done and if there is no problem with the liners/head and no gasses in the coolant replace the parts that are suspect, rad, stat etc!

sorry to be blunt but it ****es me off when people are told the way to go then disbelieve the answers to thier questions. if seeking advice from other owners and people who have been in the same place you are now is below you then i suggest the 'google search' facility provided by google and the countless posts and articles that people have posted and written after having what at first looks like a terminal situation with thier car!!!

i hope you get to the bottom of the problem and find a speedy solution but for fcuk sake, learn to take opinions and advice on board!!

:eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
nathan5346 said:
Shud have mentioned the fitting would cost extra, theres plenty options open to you 1st would be to get it correctly diagnosed then take it from there, take a look at gavbriggs posts he had slipped liners and his r/r is a labour of love there are many knowledgable peeps on ere who im sure would be willing to offer help and advice... it could always go missing :behindsofa: :D
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just for your and others info pumps are quite cheap, i have this one fitted currently!

Water Pump 4.0/4.6 STC4378 Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order.
 
Dont we all lol, you know that diso i bort? its got a bit of oil round the rockers so i bort rocker gaskets for less than £9, popped the bonnet to have a look where to start and... omg... feck that too much to strip off i reckon a days work, ive done a couple of thousand miles in it and havent needed to top it up so think i'll leave a while to build up the courage to tackle it :D
 
gavbriggs said:
i am sorry but i have to pull you up on this post, a knackered block is just that, it doesnt mean it is beyond repair.

if the liners are slipped that means the combustion gasses can escape under compression past the head gasket fire ring and into the water galleries and on to the coolant system. thus resulting in pockets of gas and/or gasses pushing water out of the expansion vessel.

the reason that liners slip is the expansion and contraction rates of the liners and block bieng different as they are constructed: liners = ductile iron, block aluminium alloy.

this is obviously brought on by some excessive heat/cooling process which as yet has not been explained to me other than an overheat can cause this.

now if you dont believe me, pop round and i can show you examples of slipped and non slipped liners.

having been through the process in the last 12 months i can assure you that if the liners are slipped no amount of 'wizerd's sperm additives' will seal the liners and gasses from the water ways!

that said, there are degrees of severity and other problems which can cause similar symptoms but none i know of will produce combustion gasses in the coolant system other than gasses escaping via the usually sealed combustion chamber. head gasket, cracked heads, slipped liners and 'porous block' all require a strip down, again cracked heads are less severe than slipped liners as they can be changed to a good pair in 6 hours!

a sniff test (hydrocarbon in the coolant test) will tell you if there is gasses present not where they are coming from!

the lpg vapouriser will give you the same symptoms as slipped liner if it is allowing lpg gas into the coolant system but i dont think it will show on the sniff test.

the cheapest option available to you at the moment is to get the test done and if there is no problem with the liners/head and no gasses in the coolant replace the parts that are suspect, rad, stat etc!

sorry to be blunt but it ****es me off when people are told the way to go then disbelieve the answers to thier questions. if seeking advice from other owners and people who have been in the same place you are now is below you then i suggest the 'google search' facility provided by google and the countless posts and articles that people have posted and written after having what at first looks like a terminal situation with thier car!!!

i hope you get to the bottom of the problem and find a speedy solution but for fcuk sake, learn to take opinions and advice on board!!

:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Click to expand...
There's a difference between comment and advice. Advice implies some degree of knowledge as opposed to 'Mine worked after someone did so and so to it so it must be true' comments that you must have had in the past.
You seem to know what you are talking about and can back it up with a certain amount of concrete evidence. I know I need to pay someone to sort this, but most of the advice I have had from forums is conjecture. And no, I am not beneath listening to advice, some of which has been useful, which I have taken on board but I will always politely dismiss the vagaries of a amateur.
So back to the car, I have just managed to find an 'expert' who spent 20 mins on the phone do a little detective work with me. He said that obviously he couldn't be sure over the phone but was adamant that all of the cracked this and slipped that would result in a more consistent temperature rise and overheating. To run perfectly for some of the time, he said, points to the cooling system. Advice was to flush all, new rad, new thermostat (all of which are very cheap on the net as you point out). This, apparently, really is not a long job but he is so overbooked that he couldn't fit me in until late next month at the earliest. It is the wife's car and she she is giving birth in Sep so that would be a good time to have this sorted.
 
treborretnim said:
Point taken (although BMWs first effort was the 2002 L series which I think everyone agrees is in a different league)... but where on earth do you get a new long/short engine and get it fitted all for a couple of grand?
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Norwich-based engine builders RPi do brand new RR 4.6 engines, what they call "turn-key" with everything fitted and ready to run, but at nearly £5000 that's more than many RRs are worth engines and all!!! Plus you'd have to pay someone to fit it if you can't, and there would be little issues to sort like unlocking the BECM so the car and the engine actually communicate and the electronics, notoriously twitchy anyway, don't throw a hissy fit when faced with a brand new engine. :doh:

Its a difficult decision to be faced with - do you dump and run, or do you shell out on a new engine to fit in an ancient car (you can't really buy a fantastic new car for £5000 anyway) :eek: Or do you do the next best thing and rebuild and troubleshoot like so many others on this forum have done....hoping it costs a lot less than £5K when all totalled up in the end. You also need to take into account the other stuff that can go wrong - the EAS for example, or the aircon, or the BECM itself and the general condition of the body and the car itself and if is going to take £££££s then I'd seriously reconsider dumping it for spares, if everything else is pretty sound though, I'd seriously consider a new engine - Good Luck and I hope it isn't a massive task. :eek:
 
treborretnim said:
There's a difference between comment and advice. Advice implies some degree of knowledge as opposed to 'Mine worked after someone did so and so to it so it must be true' comments that you must have had in the past.
You seem to know what you are talking about and can back it up with a certain amount of concrete evidence. I know I need to pay someone to sort this, but most of the advice I have had from forums is conjecture. And no, I am not beneath listening to advice, some of which has been useful, which I have taken on board but I will always politely dismiss the vagaries of a amateur.
So back to the car, I have just managed to find an 'expert' who spent 20 mins on the phone do a little detective work with me. He said that obviously he couldn't be sure over the phone but was adamant that all of the cracked this and slipped that would result in a more consistent temperature rise and overheating. To run perfectly for some of the time, he said, points to the cooling system. Advice was to flush all, new rad, new thermostat (all of which are very cheap on the net as you point out). This, apparently, really is not a long job but he is so overbooked that he couldn't fit me in until late next month at the earliest. It is the wife's car and she she is giving birth in Sep so that would be a good time to have this sorted.
Click to expand...

robert, have you bothered to contact any other garages? or as most of us here do, gain the tools and have a go yourself. after all as it stands it's knackered!
 
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