Help needed - fitting r380 to v8

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

Hi all,

This sodding gearbox is testing my patience now... After weeks of delay for missing parts and supplier delays, I finally came to fit it last night.

After working out a method using the engine crane, I managed to get the box lined up, dowels engaged, but can never get closer than a 5mm gap between the housings.

I asked for help on one of the landy fb groups last night, and lots of people were talking about taking the clutch off, and/or checking the spigot bearing.

My problem with that info is the very small gap that's left. Surely with just a 5mm gap, the splines must be engaged, and the shaft must be already in the spigot bearing.

I put some grease on the front of the spigot bearing, and it deffo gets pushed back by the input shaft.

Can anyone advise?

flat · Mar 17, 2016

There isn't something daft like a dowel stopping it go on? If you see what I mean

Have the engine and box been together before or is his a new setup?

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

flat said:
There isn't something daft like a dowel stopping it go on? If you see what I mean

Have the engine and box been together before or is his a new setup?

I've checked the obviously stuff with the dowels - holes are clean, line up, etc. There's only 2 dowels, and they're both in the engine side.

This is a totally new setup. It's originally a 3.9v8 from a disco, and a rebuilt r380 with a v8 bellhousing and input shaft.

There were some mentioneds on face-ache about "oh, did this start out as an engine with an auto box?"... I'm not sure what the relevance of that is.

listerdiesel · Mar 17, 2016

I had issues with a new V8 short engine (genuine LR) and the R380 box already in the car.

The engine block was effectively a late D1 type and the dowelling is different.

I seem to remember that I took the engine back out and opened up the dowel holes, but I also think that I was more than 5mm apart at the time.

If the clutch centre plate is not dead-centre it will cause everything to jam up, I made a new alignment tool and it worked well. If you could release the plate by operating the clutch it would help, but you'd need it all hooked up and bolts in to stop the box going backwards.

Peter

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

I should have mentioned that this is a rolling chassis, so there's no pedals to operate anything. I removed the slave cyl from the bellhousing to make sure that the release bearing wasn't adding resistance. I'll check the dowel sizes... there was a bit of swarf in the inner lip of the dowel holes.

boguing · Mar 17, 2016

Two thoughts. The depth of the spigot bush should be more than 25mm from the back face of the flywheel from the measurements you kindly gave me for my project.

Second is that too much grease will stop the shaft going in.

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

boguing said:
Two thoughts. The depth of the spigot bush should be more than 25mm from the back face of the flywheel from the measurements you kindly gave me for my project.

Second is that grease will stop the shaft going in.

measurement wise, I'm not sure what to do with that info if I'm honest

grease - it was only a little bit around the inner diametre of the spigot bush - not enough to cause hyrdaulic locking issues.

boguing · Mar 17, 2016

Easier to explain as if the clutch was off. Put a straight edge across the face of the flywheel. You told me that this is 35mm from the mating face of the block and that the end of the input shaft is 10mm back from the mating face of the bellhousing, so you need just over 25mm from the straight edge into the end of the spigot bush hole to accommodate the input shaft.

Since you have the clutch on, put the straight edge across that, measure from that to the block mating surface and then measure from the straight edge into the spigot bush. Subtract the second from the first and the answer has to be less than 10mm.

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

boguing said:
Easier to explain as if the clutch was off. Put a straight edge across the face of the flywheel. You told me that this is 35mm from the mating face of the block and that the end of the input shaft is 10mm back from the mating face of the bellhousing, so you need just over 25mm from the straight edge into the end of the spigot bush hole to accommodate the input shaft.

Since you have the clutch on, put the straight edge across that, measure from that to the block mating surface and then measure from the straight edge into the spigot bush. Subtract the second from the first and the answer has to be less than 10mm.

Great, that make sense - thanks. I'll give that a go shortly

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

just had a chat with mr ashcroft as he returned my call from this morning. He's confirmed the input shafts is correct (19mm for a v8, as aposed to 22mm for tdi).

He's advised that I'm possibly running out of spline too.. advised that I grease the input shaft splines a little to see if that's the problem... measurements from posts above will give the same answer hopefully.

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

Please excuse the crayon style..

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

I also checked the dowels... The rhs dowel is a couple of thou thicker than the lhs, but a 12mm ring spanner fits over them both. M12 bolt slide easily into the dowel holes in the bell housing, but the fit wasn't close enough to be accurate... Then I discovered that this handy 1/4 inch drive extension head is pretty close!

jamesmartin · Mar 17, 2016

does it butt up solid or just get tighter

jamesmartin · Mar 17, 2016

spigot looks long though it might be just the pic

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

jamesmartin said:
does it butt up solid or just get tighter

Not sure if I can answer that. I feel like things "slot in" up to a point.. Then it goes no further than that 5mm gap all around. Even gap top and bottom etc. The only only only wierd bit I notice it that when wobbling to try and get it to line up (once it's at this 5mm point) all the movement is on the left... Which is also the slightly slightly slightly thinner dowel side.

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

Added another measure..

jamesmartin · Mar 17, 2016

try it with dowels out that will rule themout

Discokids · Mar 17, 2016

It may sound obvious, stupid or otherwise irrelevant, but could you whip the clutch off and try it? Or better still get somebody turning the crank with a socket or put the box in gear and turn one of the props/lock the other still to help the clutch and shift mesh? whilst you're putting pressure on the joint? It's seems obvious but ive seen this before, watching somebody who's fitted more engines/boxes/clutches than I've had hot dinners, struggle like mad until a fresh pair of eyes has a look.

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

jamesmartin said:
try it with dowels out that will rule themout

I can do that... I don't want to mash them up though... What's the best way to extract?

farmershort · Mar 17, 2016

Discokids said:
It may sound obvious, stupid or otherwise irrelevant, but could you whip the clutch off and try it? Or better still get somebody turning the crank with a sprocket or put the box in gear and turn one of the props/lock the other still to help the clutch and shift mesh? whilst you're putting pressure on the joint? It's seems obvious but ive seen this before, watching somebody who's fitted more engines/boxes/clutches than I've had hot dinners.

There's no gear stick or assembly, just the very base of the shifter on the top of the gearbox... Ive tried selecting a gear with it and it doesn't work... Only goes so far... And I'm too scared of damaging it.

I have turned the flywheel from underneath with it bolted in the 5mm gap position, and the crane providing forward thrust, but it makes no odds... At a 5mm gap, the splines should be lined up OK.

Help needed - fitting r380 to v8

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