Help, I've ground to a halt!

SteveJones · Jan 23, 2015

It's been one of those weeks...

Defender 90, 1987, re-engined with an Isuzu 2.8TD about 7 years ago (not by me)

So, I'm driving home and after 10 minutes or so of driving the Landy just gives a slight 'thump' and the dash lights come on and the engine has died, luckily I was able to coast into a bus stop so off the main road. All attempts to restart fail, it turns over on the starter motor but it doesn't even give a hint of firing up. It's now been picked up and put on my drive, so let the fun begin.

My best guess is fuel system cos it just stopped, no warning and no drama other than a very slight thump as it stalled. The fuel filter looks ok and I can push fuel through the system using the priming bellows which are fitted just before the fuel filter. Having disconnected the hose to the injection pump I can get fuel all the way from the tank to that point (although the bellows have a slight leak which I need to fix, but I don't think it's causing the problem).

So, am I wrong assuming it's a fuel problem, or do I need to look closer at the injection pump (you know I don't want to hear that

) Any other thoughts of what I need to check greatly appreciated!

And yes, I guess I could have posted this on an Isuzu forum as it's an Isuzu engine, but you guys are just waaaaay more knowledgeable and helpful than them! Right??!

Seriously, thanks in advance for any ideas.

Cheers,

Steve

Station House · Jan 23, 2015

to stop that quickly (rather than coughing and spluttering) makes me think eiher:

a) stop solonoid (assume the Isuzu has one)

or

b) electrical/engine management system related

SteveJones · Jan 23, 2015

Hey, thanks. Stop solonoid, just done a quick bit of research, sounds like something I should check first. Am I correct in saying that I can apply +12v to it and it should just click open?

Station House · Jan 23, 2015

yep - straight 12v feed

Know on the fenders they do fail, the terminals can corrode and the plunger gets sticky

Afraid my knowledge doesn't stretch to other makes

Luigi Vampa · Jan 23, 2015

Timing Belt?
Would cause the same 'sudden' stop!

(Might be a chain on Isuzu, been too long since I had one to remember)

tottot · Jan 23, 2015

Check there is 12v at the feed wire with the ignition on,just touching that line on and off the solonoid should produce a click.

defender11069 · Jan 23, 2015

Luigi Vampa said:
Timing Belt?
Would cause the same 'sudden' stop!

(Might be a chain on Isuzu, been too long since I had one to remember)

+1 check if cam's moving when its tured over

SteveJones · Jan 23, 2015

Cheers guys, I think we're getting there! I've put a meter to the feed and it's dead at all ignition switch positions. I need to run a direct feed to it to test, but the battery is in need of a charge and it's getting bloody cold (wimp) so I'll start again tomorrow. There are actually two connections to the injector pump and I've read in a couple of places that there may be two stop solonoids. Doesn't make sense to me why there would be two, but it appears safe to simply connect both to +12v and turn over the engine. It might take a bit of trying now cos it's been tried quite a bit already and probably pulled some air into the fuel lines.

Anyhow, cheers muchly :clap2:

SteveJones · Jan 23, 2015

defender11069 said:
+1 check if cam's moving when its tured over

Will do.

Wouldn't turning it over with the starter motor do serious damage if the timing belt has gone?

Luigi Vampa · Jan 23, 2015

If the timing belt has broken, the 'serious' damage would have been done before you came to a stop!!!

SteveJones · Jan 23, 2015

Luigi Vampa said:
If the timing belt has broken, the 'serious' damage would have been done before you came to a stop!!!

That's what I thought, I'd know surely? Like, bad noises from the engine, right?

(and stop calling me Shirley...)

Station House · Jan 23, 2015

I Think if it's been cranking normally but just not firing shouldn't be belt related

at least hope not!

Luigi Vampa · Jan 23, 2015

Seldom ever hear any noise, valves only hit the piston once, then its all over!
However, it might be turning over quicker than usual on the starter, not definite, but possible.
Easy way to check is to pop off the oil filler cap, get someone to crank it over, see if camshaft is moving. if it is'nt moving, then you can stop looking at fuel system!

SteveJones · Jan 24, 2015

Luigi Vampa said:
Seldom ever hear any noise, valves only hit the piston once, then its all over!
However, it might be turning over quicker than usual on the starter, not definite, but possible.
Easy way to check is to pop off the oil filler cap, get someone to crank it over, see if camshaft is moving. if it is'nt moving, then you can stop looking at fuel system!

Just done that, and with the engine turning over on the starter motor there is no movement from the camshaft. I guess this is a deffo timing belt failure?

If so, are we sure that the Isuzu 2.8 TD will trash the valves? I have an MR2 and I know that the engine is designed in such a way that the valves don't encroach into the piston stroke.

Just a wild hope?

warrior · Jan 24, 2015

Pull the rocker off and look for damage and broken bits, my defender snapped the belt and it bent a few push rods n that was it,

defender11069 · Jan 24, 2015

warrior said:
Pull the rocker off and look for damage and broken bits, my defender snapped the belt and it bent a few push rods n that was it,

yep same with mine just 4 rods bent.

just appen to be on a weeks laning in wales at the time..

SteveJones · Jan 28, 2015

Well...

Just got a quote from my local garage (good guy I've used for a few years, various cars) and he's estimating £800 to £1300 depending on damage which of course won't be known until the head comes off.

I don't have the facilities or the time (and possibly tools) to attempt this myself. I have no idea if this estimate is about right or if I would be better off getting another quote.

Anyone got any ideas??

Thanks.

discomania · Jan 28, 2015

SteveJones said:
...slight 'thump' and the dash lights come on and the engine has died, luckily I was able to coast into a bus stop so off the main road. All attempts to restart fail, it turns over on the starter motor but it doesn't even give a hint of firing up. It's now been picked up and put on my drive, so let the fun begin.
.

Had this issue about 3 weeks ago with that engine, in an Isuzu. It's the thump which made me think it was the same issue.

They seem to get neglected a bit these engines, in this case belt had jumped some teeth, belt and tensioner system was past it hence this issue.

SteveJones · Jan 28, 2015

discomania said:
Had this issue about 3 weeks ago with that engine, in an Isuzu. It's the thump which made me think it was the same issue.

They seem to get neglected a bit these engines, in this case belt had jumped some teeth, belt and tensioner system was past it hence this issue.

Have you had it fixed, if so, may I ask at what cost? I'm desperate to get this back on the road but I can't afford a grand...

discomania · Jan 28, 2015

SteveJones said:
Have you had it fixed, if so, may I ask at what cost? I'm desperate to get this back on the road but I can't afford a grand...

It wasn't my vehicle. The mechanic who works 2 doors down from my business was working on one and I popped over to see what he was up to - ended up giving him a hand diagnosing it and after all the basics he pulled the chest cover off and checked the belt, sure enough when all lined up the pump timing was out by 2 teeth.

He just fitted a new belt, so really it was just the cost of diagnosing it and a timing belt change as it didn't damage anything.

Help, I've ground to a halt!

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