Help identify this vehicle and catch some thieves.

  • Thread starter The Natural Philosopher
  • Start date
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The Natural Philosopher ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

> The Subaru Legacy - older ones - equipped with minimal tyres has 4WD
> and fits the bill perfectly, and I do remeber being woken vaguely by
> what sounded like a VW engine - flat four in a soobie innit?


Yup. I'd think 165 a bit narrow, though.

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=18953
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=28622
Legacy is about the right w/b and track, as is the older '80s Subaru (but
they all dissolved YEARS ago) but Michelin's tyre finder reckons 185 or 195
for the recent Legacy.
 
Adrian wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
> were saying :
>
>
>>>Not so sure about that - almost anything Escort-sized and below apart
>>>from probably the last five years or so. Hell, many Fiesta-size use
>>>135 and 145. Escort Vans are prime thieving pikey scum fodder - and
>>>would have no problem with a bit of muddy grass, especially with
>>>somebody who'll be used to nicking things out of sheds in the middle
>>>of the night behind the wheel.

>
>
>>Ok, I'll buy that. Where can I find track and wheelbase data on Escort
>>and Fiesta sized vans?

>
>
> '92 (Mk IV) Escort Estate :-
> http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=27027
> Wheelbase 2525mm
> Track F 1440mm, R 1462mm
> Total width 1696mm
>
> Damn near spot-on your measurements, right?
>


NBot as spot on as te Legacy.

Denitely track was 1.45-1.46 and thesame at frnt and rear benear as dammit.

wheelbase is 2.56-2.6. Escort is too short.

>
>>>I'd have thought 4x4 tyres would be fairly identifiable from the
>>>tread, too - chunkier, more open.

>
>
>>Its the cheapo michelins similar to what you get on any small car -
>>longitudinal sipes wih lateral ones at an angle on teh edges.

>
>
> Bit upmarket for a pikey Scrote van... <grin> Probably nicked.


I think its an old soobie legacy 4x4 estate with the cheapest tyres you
can fit on the rims on it.
 
tony sayer wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, The Natural
> Philosopher <[email protected]> writes
>
>>s--p--o--n--i--x wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 13:58:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>s--p--o--n--i--x wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:55:34 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Apologies for X posting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Six months ago I had a 'visit' from the light-fingered brigade who broke
>>>>>>into my shed and relieved me of an old lawnmower, and more expensively a
>>>>>>brand new hedge trimmer and chain saw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Two nights ago the same tyre tracks took the same path across the same
>>>>>>field and stopped in the same place outside my hedge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I no longer keep anything of value in the shed, so no crime committed,
>>>>>>but this time I got some decent measurements in the wet soil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What I have is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wheelbase 2.45 meters +- 50 cm.
>>>>>>Track 1.45 meters +-5cm.
>>>>>>Tread width 165mm, sidewalls maybe 200mm apart, Michelin cheapo tyres
>>>>>>Almost certainly 4x4 to leave the sort of marks it did - there were 4
>>>>>>equal sized gouges where it stopped, and then took off again.
>>>>>>A bit lighter than a Landrover Defender - mine leaves deeper tracks on
>>>>>>wider tyres.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Since the intention was to remove large garden machinery, I am guessing
>>>>>>a pickup or a van style back - as in landrover and jap copies thereof.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Any suggestions as to the make of vehicle would be welcome. By me and
>>>>>>the police here. They are cagey, but I have the impression they know who
>>>>>>it is, but lack evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Take a plaster cast of the tyre tracks before they dissappear...and
>>>>>get a security camera!
>>>>
>>>>No need. They are Michelins, same as last time, as I'ded by local police.
>>>
>>>
>>>Ford escort/Vauxhall astra?
>>>
>>>sPoNiX

>>
>>AHA. I may have it. Volvo 145 estate?
>>
>>This looks like it matches in EVERY respect.
>>
>>http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/press/pdf/145S-PressRelease.pdf
>>Wheel base 102.5" = 2.60 meters wheelbase.
>>Track 57" = 1.45 meters
>>Tire size 165 S 15.
>>
>>I'll dig deeper, but its not the first time I have seen a dodgy volvo
>>hanging around.
>>
>>

>
>
> Even so NP what are, or can, you do with that info. Even if you do
> determine that it is such and such a vehicle, are you any really further
> forward?.


Possibly. The word from the police last time I spoke was that they had a
shortlist of suspects.

If it is a Legacy, they are not that common.

What that means is next time something goes missing - and these boys are
operating round here on a regular basis - they may well know where to
look for stolen goods.

Last tme it looked like two vehicles - the michelin shod one ad
something bigger.

Or two trips maybe.

I suspect this one is the scout, and the pickup comes along if there is
something bigger to remove.



>
> Perhaps the best thing you have done is to demo that your gaff isn't
> worth doing over again?...


That is certanl;y a pont., although I suspect it was a question of 'lets
take a look in passing'

 
The Natural Philosopher ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

>> '92 (Mk IV) Escort Estate :-
>> http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=27027
>> Wheelbase 2525mm


>> Damn near spot-on your measurements, right?


> NBot as spot on as te Legacy.


> wheelbase is 2.56-2.6. Escort is too short.


Your original post said 2450 +/- 50.

> I think its an old soobie legacy 4x4 estate with the cheapest tyres
> you can fit on the rims on it.


Michelins? Subarus use 15", and 185 or 195/70 15" would be much cheaper
than 165s, anyway - very common size, where 165/15 is scarce - Beetle and
that's about your lot. Hmmm. Beetle. Transporter? Track's a bit narrow, and
the w/b is a bit short, though.
 
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> The Subaru Legacy - older ones - equipped with minimal tyres has 4WD and
> fits the bill perfectly, and I do remeber being woken vaguely by what
> sounded like a VW engine - flat four in a soobie innit?


Its a flat four, but water cooled. A distinctive sound (more bass note),
but not really like a VW. Most of the older/smaller engine versions
would be on 185/80 R15. Michelin would have been factory fitted at the
time (late 80s). Not the most inconspicuous vehicle though... certainly
at that age there would be very few on the road.





--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
 
John Rumm wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> The Subaru Legacy - older ones - equipped with minimal tyres has 4WD
>> and fits the bill perfectly, and I do remeber being woken vaguely by
>> what sounded like a VW engine - flat four in a soobie innit?

>
>
> Its a flat four, but water cooled. A distinctive sound (more bass note),
> but not really like a VW. Most of the older/smaller engine versions
> would be on 185/80 R15. Michelin would have been factory fitted at the
> time (late 80s). Not the most inconspicuous vehicle though... certainly
> at that age there would be very few on the road.
>
>
>

Is it possible that some were equipped with 14" wheels?

>
>

 
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Is it possible that some were equipped with 14" wheels?


Don't think so... its quite a big car remeber (mondeo sized). My first
was a '92 2.0L model and that was IIRC 185/80 or possibly 185/70 R15, my
current one is 205/60 R15.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
 

"The Natural Philosopher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>> "The Natural Philosopher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Apologies for X posting.
>>>

>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>Wheelbase 2.45 meters +- 50 cm.
>>>Track 1.45 meters +-5cm.
>>>Tread width 165mm, sidewalls maybe 200mm apart, Michelin cheapo tyres
>>>Almost certainly 4x4 to leave the sort of marks it did - there were 4
>>>equal sized gouges where it stopped, and then took off again.
>>>A bit lighter than a Landrover Defender - mine leaves deeper tracks
>>>on
>>>wider tyres.
>>>
>>>Since the intention was to remove large garden machinery, I am
>>>guessing
>>>a pickup or a van style back - as in landrover and jap copies
>>>thereof.
>>>
>>>Any suggestions as to the make of vehicle would be welcome. By me and
>>>the police here. They are cagey, but I have the impression they know
>>>who
>>>it is, but lack evidence.
>>>



> 165mm across the treads - is that where the tyre is 'measured' at?


No. The section width is measured at the widest part, and is a bit
nominal anyway - different makes have slightly different actual widths
for the same nominal width. It's also affected by the size of wheel used
to some extent.

The tread width is easier to define on some tread patterns than others:
some have rounded shoulders which may leave a wider impression on soft
ground than hard, but there is a wide variation between tread patterns
for the same nominal section width. I've just measured two nominally
175 wide tyres: on one, the tread width is about 140mm, and on the other
it's nearer 160mm.

Some remoulds and "budget" brands use a very similar tread pattern to
Michelins.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. [email protected])***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby

 
> > Is it possible that some were equipped with 14" wheels?
>
> Don't think so... its quite a big car remeber (mondeo sized). My first
> was a '92 2.0L model and that was IIRC 185/80 or possibly 185/70 R15, my
> current one is 205/60 R15.


My Cavalier (1984) had 13" wheels, so cars of this size often had 13"
wheels, let alone 14".

Christian.


 
Autolycus wrote:

>
> "The Natural Philosopher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>> "The Natural Philosopher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> Apologies for X posting.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Wheelbase 2.45 meters +- 50 cm.
>>>> Track 1.45 meters +-5cm.
>>>> Tread width 165mm, sidewalls maybe 200mm apart, Michelin cheapo tyres
>>>> Almost certainly 4x4 to leave the sort of marks it did - there were 4
>>>> equal sized gouges where it stopped, and then took off again.
>>>> A bit lighter than a Landrover Defender - mine leaves deeper tracks on
>>>> wider tyres.
>>>>
>>>> Since the intention was to remove large garden machinery, I am guessing
>>>> a pickup or a van style back - as in landrover and jap copies thereof.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions as to the make of vehicle would be welcome. By me and
>>>> the police here. They are cagey, but I have the impression they know
>>>> who
>>>> it is, but lack evidence.
>>>>

>
>
>> 165mm across the treads - is that where the tyre is 'measured' at?

>
>
> No. The section width is measured at the widest part, and is a bit
> nominal anyway - different makes have slightly different actual widths
> for the same nominal width. It's also affected by the size of wheel used
> to some extent.
>
> The tread width is easier to define on some tread patterns than others:
> some have rounded shoulders which may leave a wider impression on soft
> ground than hard, but there is a wide variation between tread patterns
> for the same nominal section width. I've just measured two nominally
> 175 wide tyres: on one, the tread width is about 140mm, and on the other
> it's nearer 160mm.


Ah. My 'sidwall' measurements on te deep ruts were 200mm or so.

>
> Some remoulds and "budget" brands use a very similar tread pattern to
> Michelins.
>


Yes.
>

 
Christian McArdle wrote:

>>>Is it possible that some were equipped with 14" wheels?

>>
>>Don't think so... its quite a big car remeber (mondeo sized). My first
>>was a '92 2.0L model and that was IIRC 185/80 or possibly 185/70 R15, my
>>current one is 205/60 R15.

>
>
> My Cavalier (1984) had 13" wheels, so cars of this size often had 13"
> wheels, let alone 14".
>
> Christian.
>
>

Oh yes. 14" wheels wer really qite daring in the 80's. As were low
profile (/70) tyres.
 
On Wednesday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "tony sayer" wrote:

> >>>>On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:55:34 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Apologies for X posting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Six months ago I had a 'visit' from the light-fingered brigade who broke
> >>>>>into my shed and relieved me of an old lawnmower, and more expensively a
> >>>>>brand new hedge trimmer and chain saw.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Two nights ago the same tyre tracks took the same path across the same
> >>>>>field and stopped in the same place outside my hedge.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I no longer keep anything of value in the shed, so no crime committed,
> >>>>>but this time I got some decent measurements in the wet soil.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>What I have is:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Wheelbase 2.45 meters +- 50 cm.
> >>>>>Track 1.45 meters +-5cm.
> >>>>>Tread width 165mm, sidewalls maybe 200mm apart, Michelin cheapo tyres
> >>>>>Almost certainly 4x4 to leave the sort of marks it did - there were 4
> >>>>>equal sized gouges where it stopped, and then took off again.
> >>>>>A bit lighter than a Landrover Defender - mine leaves deeper tracks on
> >>>>>wider tyres.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Since the intention was to remove large garden machinery, I am guessing
> >>>>>a pickup or a van style back - as in landrover and jap copies thereof.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Any suggestions as to the make of vehicle would be welcome. By me and
> >>>>>the police here. They are cagey, but I have the impression they know who
> >>>>>it is, but lack evidence.

>
> Even so NP what are, or can, you do with that info. Even if you do
> determine that it is such and such a vehicle, are you any really further
> forward?.


It doesn't advance things a lot, but it can, most likely, rule out some
suspects. I'd be wary of identifying the vehicle from this info, it
might even have been stolen anyway, but if somebody had been caught
elsewhere, in a vehicle that didn't match, the Police would know there
was still somebody else.



--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
John Rumm wrote:
>The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> The Subaru Legacy - older ones - equipped with minimal tyres has 4WD and
>> fits the bill perfectly, and I do remeber being woken vaguely by what
>> sounded like a VW engine - flat four in a soobie innit?

>
>Its a flat four, but water cooled. A distinctive sound (more bass note),
>but not really like a VW. Most of the older/smaller engine versions
>would be on 185/80 R15. Michelin would have been factory fitted at the
>time (late 80s). Not the most inconspicuous vehicle though... certainly
>at that age there would be very few on the road.


Mine (L-series, model before the Legacy) died a few years ago, and I can't
remember what size wheels it had. But there are still a few around - including
the pickup version, which would probably be ideal for shifting lawnmowers
and suchlike. I'm not sure that's exactly the same wheelbase though, or how
it compares with the Legacy (can't be very different).
 
David G. Bell wrote:


> It doesn't advance things a lot, but it can, most likely, rule out some
> suspects. I'd be wary of identifying the vehicle from this info, it
> might even have been stolen anyway, but if somebody had been caught
> elsewhere, in a vehicle that didn't match, the Police would know there
> was still somebody else.
>


Firstly, this is not a one off, its a bit of a crime wave round here.
Secondly, we do have a neigborhood watch, and it does actually two an
extent, work.
Thirdly, I am more and more convinced that this is the same vehicle as
was used last time, so its not a casually stolen vehicle; Its a vehicle
that is used precisely for this sort of excercise.

Lat time it was a eat of te summer/harvets just in - and anything cold
have drie over that field.

This week, there has been snow and the ground is waterlogged. I would
not expect anything other than an older car with narrow tyres to be able
to negotiate that field, The same track that has been very cut up by
other cars parking (they used a common dog walkers track to start their
exploit) is not cut up at all by these guys. The only signs of wheelspin
are where four identical gouges have been made just outside my garden,
where they presimaly stopped and started. These have provided the basic
assumptions on the cars wheelbase, and the fact it was 4WD.

The one issue I thouh was resolved, is the tyre width. But it seems a
'165' trye may be narrower at the tread than 65mm. so I am off to
measure the wifes tyres to see what tread width correspnds to what tre
size, as she has similar sort of tyres on board.

The actual purpose of this, apart from an interesting exrecise in
researh and analysis, is to provide police and neighborhood watch, and
the local community with something to watch out for.

The patterns of these thefts is about an 8 mile radius circle centerd
somewhere fairly near here. I, personally, can think of about 4-6 people
who I 'would not be surprised' if they happened to be the culprits. But
OTOH they may be entirely innocent, and bad mouthing the local lads is
not something I want to do without a bit more than a hunch to go on.

And the next time I see e.g. a Subaru Legacy parked up the side of a
field with an innocent dog walker enjoying a stroll, I will know to take
its number.

It's very rare to see or hear a single car go up our road after about
11pm on a weekday. We both, and the dog, did wake up that night and hear
something go past, that was 'different' in engine tone. You just know
that somethng is out of the run of the normal stuff you hear. The
direction it went in is itself slightly suggestive..to get to that field
from that direction implies a soemwhat unusual route, and one that would
not lead to or from the more likely places to expect the lads to be
living in.







>
>

 
The Natural Philosopher ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

> This week, there has been snow and the ground is waterlogged.


> The only signs of wheelspin
> are where four identical gouges have been made just outside my garden,
> where they presimaly stopped and started. These have provided the
> basic assumptions on the cars wheelbase, and the fact it was 4WD.


> It's very rare to see or hear a single car go up our road after about
> 11pm on a weekday. We both, and the dog, did wake up that night and hear
> something go past, that was 'different' in engine tone.


Hmmm. It all certainly sounds Subaru, then. Could well be an older Subaru
pickup.
 
Adrian wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
> were saying :
>
>
>>This week, there has been snow and the ground is waterlogged.

>
>
>>The only signs of wheelspin
>>are where four identical gouges have been made just outside my garden,
>>where they presimaly stopped and started. These have provided the
>>basic assumptions on the cars wheelbase, and the fact it was 4WD.

>
>
>>It's very rare to see or hear a single car go up our road after about
>>11pm on a weekday. We both, and the dog, did wake up that night and hear
>>something go past, that was 'different' in engine tone.

>
>
> Hmmm. It all certainly sounds Subaru, then. Could well be an older Subaru
> pickup.


Mm. any URL's for that?

 
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>Adrian wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm. It all certainly sounds Subaru, then. Could well be an older Subaru
>> pickup.

>
>Mm. any URL's for that?


http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/80s/specs/general/1984brat.html
http://www.cars101.com/oldsubaru.html
("Brat" was the US market name. I don't know if the UK version is
significantly different in ways affecting the tyre tracks.
http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/neatstuff/history/Page2s/1980page2.htm
claims it was "Bi-Drive Recreational All-Terrain Transporter".)
 
Alan Braggins wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>Adrian wrote:
>>
>>>Hmmm. It all certainly sounds Subaru, then. Could well be an older Subaru
>>>pickup.

>>
>>Mm. any URL's for that?

>
>
> http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/80s/specs/general/1984brat.html
> http://www.cars101.com/oldsubaru.html
> ("Brat" was the US market name. I don't know if the UK version is
> significantly different in ways affecting the tyre tracks.
> http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/neatstuff/history/Page2s/1980page2.htm
> claims it was "Bi-Drive Recreational All-Terrain Transporter".)


Wheelbase a shade too short.
 
Alan Braggins wrote:

> Mine (L-series, model before the Legacy) died a few years ago, and I can't
> remember what size wheels it had. But there are still a few around - including


Same as the Legacy IIRC (or at least the one I has was)...

> the pickup version, which would probably be ideal for shifting lawnmowers


I didn't think they ever made a L series version of the pickup... but
they continued the previous GLF chassis for the pickup, MV, and Brat and
sold those alongside the L series.

> and suchlike. I'm not sure that's exactly the same wheelbase though, or how
> it compares with the Legacy (can't be very different).


They are a generation appart in several ways... also the Legacy is a
little longer and wider.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

 

"The Natural Philosopher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Adrian wrote:
>
> > The Natural Philosopher ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
> > were saying :
> >
> >
> >>>Not so sure about that - almost anything Escort-sized and below apart
> >>>from probably the last five years or so. Hell, many Fiesta-size use
> >>>135 and 145. Escort Vans are prime thieving pikey scum fodder - and
> >>>would have no problem with a bit of muddy grass, especially with
> >>>somebody who'll be used to nicking things out of sheds in the middle
> >>>of the night behind the wheel.

> >
> >
> >>Ok, I'll buy that. Where can I find track and wheelbase data on Escort
> >>and Fiesta sized vans?

> >
> >
> > '92 (Mk IV) Escort Estate :-
> > http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=27027
> > Wheelbase 2525mm
> > Track F 1440mm, R 1462mm
> > Total width 1696mm
> >
> > Damn near spot-on your measurements, right?
> >

>
> NBot as spot on as te Legacy.
>
> Denitely track was 1.45-1.46 and thesame at frnt and rear benear as

dammit.
>
> wheelbase is 2.56-2.6. Escort is too short.
>
> >
> >>>I'd have thought 4x4 tyres would be fairly identifiable from the
> >>>tread, too - chunkier, more open.

> >
> >
> >>Its the cheapo michelins similar to what you get on any small car -
> >>longitudinal sipes wih lateral ones at an angle on teh edges.

> >
> >
> > Bit upmarket for a pikey Scrote van... <grin> Probably nicked.

>
> I think its an old soobie legacy 4x4 estate with the cheapest tyres you
> can fit on the rims on it.


not a scooby legacy then 185 tyres and 2581mm wheelbase
1461 fr track 1450 rear and I wouldnt bet on the gouges in the
grass proving it was a 4wd coming to a halt on wet grass from
5mph will leave gouges when the wheels lock
Derek


 
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