Help! Fuel lift pump

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gallaghb

gallaghb

Active Member
Posts
179
Location
Woodford Green, Essex
So my 110 200tdi has been producing a lot of white smoke on start up at cold. Been running on about half veg oil half diesel. I thought I'd change the fuel filter as read that could be causing the smoke of it was all blocked up with crap. Old one actually didn't look to bad. Only changed it couple thousand miles ago but before i started running on veg.
Anyway I can get the bloody thing to prime, the lift pump lever is not pumping fuel through. I've got the bleed screw open. Read in the Haynes something about if the lever was already in the upright position then it won't work. So how do I bleed the system with no lever?! Or is my lift pump dead and tats causing the white smoke?
Any help or suggestions appreciated.
 
The lever might be "on cam" so turn the engine over for a second and try to prime using the lift pump arm. If the lift pump has been on for a while it might be a good idea to replace it - if you do get a DELPHI one ;)
 
DEFENDER90-DAZ said:
The lever might be "on cam" so turn the engine over for a second and try to prime using the lift pump arm. If the lift pump has been on for a while it might be a good idea to replace it - if you do get a DELPHI one ;)
Click to expand...

What he said. Also fill the filter up first so that most the works done. Don't get cheap pumps, I went through 2 pumps before getting a Delphi one...
 
gallaghb said:
...Been running on about half veg oil half diesel. I thought I'd change the fuel filter as read that could be causing the smoke of it was all blocked up with crap.

Or is my lift pump dead and tats causing the white smoke?
Any help or suggestions appreciated.
Click to expand...

It's been explained why your lift pump may not pump on lever, so I shall address the primary issue that got you to this stage.


A blocked filter will not cause white smoke, think about it, it just means there is a restriction in the fuel lines.


Sometimes you can get a water build-up in the filter if your fuel is contaminated or you often run with a low tank and lots of condensation ends up in the fuel. However they supply a drain off for this reason; the round thing on the bottom, carefully undo it a bit and if there is water it will drain out. Water in fuel can cause some white smoke - it's steam.


Again a dead lift pump is NOT going to cause white smoke, think about this again, it's a restriction/lack of fuel.


I think your white smoke can be attributed to the veg oil. White smoke is unburnt fuel or steam HGF etc... Assuming the 200tdi has been round the block a few times, it will be slightly worn, it may not have such high compression, therefore it cannot burn the veg, which is more difficult to ignite than diesel.


Veg oil at this time of the year especially is not a great idea, whe cold it is very thick. You also need to choose your oil wisely, not all veg oils are suitable.


Properly made bio diesel is OK year round (unless very cold).


I would deal with the white smoke and risk the possible damage caused by overly heavy oil or use diesel until it is warmer again.
 
Last edited:
White smoke = air in fuel = burst pipe = you cant bleed with lift pump.

A mix of veg and diesel doesnt make white smoke and works fine in cold weather.
 
Ive not needed to prime mine yet on a filter change, the second time it didn't even die fully, just fire it up, and when it starts to cough, floor the pedal, mine managed to prime itself fine.
if it does die, just turn it over for a while, it'll start.

was told the lever was for priming the whole system when you get air before the engine, if your only changing the filter it self primes.
 
Well, I took it on a good run and stopped smoking once heated up.
Left it for hour to cool and then started her up again and very little smoke... Will see whats its like in the morning from stone cold. It hasn't run for 2-3 weeks so could in theory be as discomania suggested a build up of water from condensation
 
EeEk said:
White smoke = air in fuel = burst pipe = you cant bleed with lift pump.

A mix of veg and diesel doesnt make white smoke and works fine in cold weather.
Click to expand...

No white smoke does not MEAN air in the fuel. It MAY be a contributing factor in some cases but is NOT the cause. White smoke is unburnt fuel, or steam, this can be identified by smelling it.

Veg oil CAN cause white smoke and in the OP's case, I believe is probably the cause of his white smoke. If veg oil does or is going to cause white smoke, it does so more in the cold, as it is slower to ignite and burn, this can lead to vaporised unburnt fuel going down the exhaust because it didn't all have a chance to burn before getting to the exhaust stroke.

Even diesel in the very cold will white smoke, BIG diesel engines can often white smoke all the time in COLD climates.

The OP also says it stopped white smoking once it was warmed up, this is because now the oil is going into a hot cylinder which will allow it to burn properly.

In some engines it may work "fine" but this is due to several factors, such as the engine, the timing, the type of oil and I don't just mean sunflower or veg etc, I mean the make, what exactly it has in it etc... The difference is working fine, and being fine...

A test to do is take your oil, and put it into the freezer, after a couple of hours take it out and see what it’s like, some oils will appear unchanged, although the viscosity will have changed, some will cloud up or turn to jelly, this is obviously a show stopper.

One of the biggest problems is the higher viscosity, because the engine will probably run OK, but it's causing damage. The issue with higher viscosity’s in diesel systems is the inability for the oil to act as a lubricant because it is too thick, have you ever rebuilt an injection pump? If yes you will know that it is near impossible in many of them to rebuild them dry, they need a light oil during reassembly, a similar effect can occur when running on a heavy oil which cannot get in between the metal components. This goes for the injectors too.
 
On the subject of 200TDI fuel lift pumps, does ANYONE have any idea what thread the inlet & outlet unions are, they dont appear to be compression 'olives' and are somewhat odd?
 
the olives are standard ones, the union nuts are specific to landys (prolly not, but its the only place you can get em!!)

8mm olive, pack costs a couple of quid.
unions, I cut off the old pump.

quick tip, on a 300tdi at least, put a bit of card over the top of the engine mount, then if you drop one it doesn't disappear inside FOREVER (gues what i did when I changed mine!!
 
quick tip, on a 300tdi at least, put a bit of card over the top of the engine mount, then if you drop one it doesn't disappear inside FOREVER (gues what i did when I changed mine!![/QUOTE]

Hey - Tim? I'm so glad you've done it too. Only I did it on the other side. Lost one of the 10mm inlet manifold nuts down the engine mount (300tdi)
After half hour of poking I managed the grab it out from under neath with a small screwdriver up the slot thing of the bottom of the engine mount - :mad:
First class :D
 
yup, had to call on a mate to grab me a new nut, mine you just couldnt get to, and me fenders me only motor :)doh:

(and yes, its Tim!!)
 
That could have been a problem Tim. Mine is my daily driver for work(Plasterer)
If I get stuck I have to use the wifes motor and that don't go down well!!


I use veg oil in my 300 but certainly not 50/50 in these months.
I use 20/80 in winter and 50/50 in summer. Get mine from bookers for 19 squid for 20 litres. Will try the freezer trick though!! I've run out of fuel a few times (thats what happens when you live on the bread line) always starts no problem when I fill it back up. Even when I change the fuel filter it only hesitates shortly.

DO get get white smoke after start up which goes after warm but I live on an empty tank so condensation I suppose as stated earlier.

I would def not do 50/50 in winter - You'll stuff your fuel pump up as its too thick this time of year. Fuel pump is too expensive!!

James
 
discomania said:
No white smoke does not MEAN air in the fuel. It MAY be a contributing factor in some cases but is NOT the cause. White smoke is unburnt fuel, or steam, this can be identified by smelling it.

Veg oil CAN cause white smoke and in the OP's case, I believe is probably the cause of his white smoke. If veg oil does or is going to cause white smoke, it does so more in the cold, as it is slower to ignite and burn, this can lead to vaporised unburnt fuel going down the exhaust because it didn't all have a chance to burn before getting to the exhaust stroke.

Even diesel in the very cold will white smoke, BIG diesel engines can often white smoke all the time in COLD climates.

The OP also says it stopped white smoking once it was warmed up, this is because now the oil is going into a hot cylinder which will allow it to burn properly.

In some engines it may work "fine" but this is due to several factors, such as the engine, the timing, the type of oil and I don't just mean sunflower or veg etc, I mean the make, what exactly it has in it etc... The difference is working fine, and being fine...

A test to do is take your oil, and put it into the freezer, after a couple of hours take it out and see what it’s like, some oils will appear unchanged, although the viscosity will have changed, some will cloud up or turn to jelly, this is obviously a show stopper.

One of the biggest problems is the higher viscosity, because the engine will probably run OK, but it's causing damage. The issue with higher viscosity’s in diesel systems is the inability for the oil to act as a lubricant because it is too thick, have you ever rebuilt an injection pump? If yes you will know that it is near impossible in many of them to rebuild them dry, they need a light oil during reassembly, a similar effect can occur when running on a heavy oil which cannot get in between the metal components. This goes for the injectors too.
Click to expand...


Jeez someone who talks sense on this forum.

OP listen to the fella as he is spot on with this topic.
 
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