Help Can anyone confirm all starting related components and requirements ?

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Can I ask a question. What do you mean by "took 5 crank attempts" to start. Do you hold the starter engaged, until it fires? Or let it crank for a couple of seconds, before stopping, then repeating the cranking process?
 
I turn key and hold for about 4-5 seconds. If doesnt start I return key to start position wait about 10 seconds and try again. Brother has exact same car and his starts at first turn of key. His is actually same model, year and colour Im tempted to switch registration plates :D.
 
With a diesel that is sluggish to start (low compression?), just keep cranking. Don't stop every 4 or 5 seconds or the heat the built up in the cylinders during crank is lost. My TD4 will normally fire after 3 or 4 seconds cranking. However sometimes it decides to be slightly more sluggish, so I just keep winding the stater until it does fire.
There's no point in stopping the cranking process as it simply increases starter wear, and is detrimental in starting engine.
 
Hi I have persevered well beyond 5 seconds many many times with no joy even still do it occasionally in frustration. All I would get is clouds of white smoke and not a chance of catching..You know yourself you can hear when an engine is getting close to firing. Trust me it needs those 5 or more attempts.As I say it starts at first turn of key in morning even if it didnt start previous evening. No fault codes on i930 when its struggling to start nor after it starts. If there is a reading from data stream on i930 you would like me to check let me know and Ill relay it. Wish yourself or someone from forum lived closer.
 
It is virtually impossible to assist you when you do not give relevant information in your description! - after a long thread - you now mention a very important 'symptom' (I say in total incredulity !)
REDNAL3 said:
All I would get is clouds of white smoke and not a chance of catching
Click to expand...
You never mentioned this before at all !. - did you not think this was at all relevant ???
Common causes of this are leaking injector(s) and or insufficient heating (glowplugs) - are you SURE your glowplugs are actually working as intended all the time ?
In fact I will say it is actually impossible to help when you do not give adequate and complete information !!!!!:mad:
I now consider the whole - morning - afternoon thing as a complete red herring. I seriously recommend you get professional help ! (for the car - :rolleyes:) - it needs to be somewhere with professional diagnostic equipment and the correct tools and equipment to do the job. Amongst many items - the injectors need testing, the glow plug circuit needs testing, compression needs testing, cylinder leak down etc needs testing etc etc etc - and NOT by some back street botcher. It needs a diesel specialist - preferably one fully familiar with that engine. Without correct info (which you are not supplying !)- you are not helping yourself and are simply confusing the issue and throwing good money after bad !.
Sorry mate - but ......................................
:(:mad::confused:
 
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Sorry buddy but It looks like you have completely misunderstood previous comment and came at me with both barrels ;). Just to be absolutely clear This can under normal circumstances does not emit excessive smoke of any colour. It starts runs and drives perfectly without a puff. The question I was asked above was what would happen if I continue cranking for much longer than the normal 5 seconds or so. I have advised that a much prolonged cranking doesnt help as it will not catch and will shortly start to emit white smoke.
It is perfectly normal for any car not firing up to start to emit unburnt fuel during excessive cranking. This car is no different and that is all I have said. I do appreciate your help and have posted every detail throughout posts in bid to solve this one.
 
REDNAL3 said:
Sorry buddy but It looks like you have completely misunderstood previous comment and came at me with both barrels ;). Just to be absolutely clear This can under normal circumstances does not emit excessive smoke of any colour. It starts runs and drives perfectly without a puff. The question I was asked above was what would happen if I continue cranking for much longer than the normal 5 seconds or so. I have advised that a much prolonged cranking doesnt help as it will not catch and will shortly start to emit white smoke.
It is perfectly normal for any car not firing up to start to emit unburnt fuel during excessive cranking. This car is no different and that is all I have said. I do appreciate your help and have posted every detail throughout posts in bid to solve this one.
Click to expand...
It is not perfectly normal for a diesel engine to not 'fire' - your 'clouds of white smoke' point to the fact that there IS fuel available - it is a very important point ! (that you overlooked to mention)
You NEED to check the fuel pressure during cranking and not starting, you NEED to check the glow plug circuits are actually working properly - then you need to start as I said above - the injectors need testing by a competent diesel specialist, compression needs testing, cylinder leak down needs testing.
Your untimely mention of your 'clouds of white smoke' tend to move away from the issue being electrical, it is a very important symptom.
Take it to a specialist and prepare your wallet for a huge hit.
 
Something is obviously wrong, I'm thinking injectors or fuel pressure on cranking. Disco Mikey is in Scotland, you could try to PM him. He might be heading you way at some point.
 
I nipped out and checked the pressure readings as suggested .
Prior to cranking engine it read....
Manifold 99 ; low pressure 97 ; high pressure 0. During cranking this changed to Manifold 99; low pressure 358 ; high pressure 46k
once started it reads manifold 97.5 ; Low pressure 370 and high pressure 31279. Whilst driving at 35mph it reads manifold 120 ;low pressure 358; high 68k
Not sure if these are normal but it drives so smoothly Im guessing they cannot be too far from expected.
The injector leak off results I posted were deemed to be normal on forum so got steered away from that.
I will have to replace the overlay harness before contacting Mike as he suggested that possibility in another post.
I still suspect its something affecting a temperature sensitive component or connector rather than a major fault. Im determined to find it ;)
 
I do not suspect the fault is major - I suspect it is going to be extremely difficult to diagnose without proper tests and all the information. (which is probably why the previous owner sold it ;))
Those (fuel) pressures look ok - however, I presume that is on a 'normal' start. You need to show the results of the same tests when it 'won't' start normally.
 
Hi No those readings were taken during a non starting episode within the past hour. It started this morning first turn of key as normal.
 
They appear to be ok. (the HP side - if anything - looks a little higher than I would expect ! - which could be that not all the injectors are opening normally due to electrical / wiring problem ) - you ideally now need a comparison to a normal start which will be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to achieve as the cranking time will be absolutely minimal !
If Mike has suggested trying the overlay wiring go for that - he is very well versed in such matters.
 
So far I replaced low pressure pump and fuel filter , renewed battery, starter motor,crankshaft sensor , replaced crankcase breather with the upgrade, cleaned air intake manifold and removed gunk from EGR ,replaced both air filters renewed all glow plugs.I swapped camshaft sensor with brothers (same car made no difference to either car). carried out all the leak off tests ( ignition only test , Cranking test and finally leak off running test) replaced pressure regulator seals and o rings.
 
So there's only the coolant sensor (CTS) and HPFR sensor to change and fit the replacement harness if not already fitted?
 
I am still waiting on the overlay harness being delivered had hoped it would have arrived today.I have taken off air intake manifold just to get a heads up on what needs to be done. While i was there I removed the pressure sensor and the adapter and the internal oval metal thingy. What I noticed was there is no sealing washer on mine between sensor and adapter. I was looking on rave and it seems to show a sealing washer and refers to it on refit instructions....
Refit
1. Clean fuel pressure sensor.
2. Fit new sealing washer to fuel pressure sensor.
Use petroleum jelly to hold sealing washer in
position on pressure sensor.
3. Fit fuel pressure sensor and tighten to 38 Nm
(28 lbf.ft).
If this is correct and it should have a washer could this possibly be related to my issues ? Does anyone know if it needs a special washer and if so where can I find the part number needed ?
 
Turns out that these do not need a washer after all and whatever Rave is referring to is either inaccurate or a different version.
I have just fitted the new harness and will see if it makes any difference.
 
The wiring harness has made no difference unfortunately so still completely stumped on this.The problem I have is that any garage I take it to would naturally want to satisfy themselves and go through all the same checks/tests I have already done. Ultimately they would have to charge a fortune in labour fees purely to get to same position im in now. realistically I either need to fix myself or let it go. There has to be something simple we are missing .
Does anyone know how to check for immoboliser faults ? The car has a tow bar fitted and I'm wondering if the electrical set up or wiring maybe behind this. Does anyone know how to disconnect this circuit completely to rule it out ? As ever any help appreciated .
 
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