help advice for sickly disco

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Hi Guys ok,
With the exception of the loom socket which is under the rocker cover I have cleaned soaked and re cleaned all the plugs and sockets up to the ecu... reconnected and fired it up... still sounds like an old Massey tractor at tick over with the low slow vibration--- cylinder misfire. not firing at all :frusty:

On the plus side I did find a load of things that need attention: lol:... axel breather pipes have become declipped and are not much higher than the chassis for some reason.

Front Cam seal O ring is shot and weeping oil.

The plastic split sleeve/tubeing that goes over wires to prevent chaffing and damage needs replacing, brittle and perished. More than I thought...

I will order a new filter set including fuel. and a new cam seal the EGR has not been removed yet, its on the list… but I think that’s just slipped down further.

I am beginning to think the problem is more mechanical than electrical, perhaps "an" injector has actually failed or one of the copper washers.

I am reluctant to order a new loom, as I think electrical connectivity/conduction won’t get any better especially after all the cleaning. I will get a meter and check continuity/resistance end to end. Soon as I can borrow one.
 
DJB said:
Thanks guys, for the info and suggestions.
I will get an isopropyl alcohol spray (servicesol et al), going to order some from fleabay, may even see if i can get a litre or so in pure liquid then I could soak all the Plug ends in a jam jar.. 6 quid from amazon :eek:
I think the air line recomendation is a good idea... just dont have one :frusty: at the moment.
In the mean time Halfords is just down the road and they have an IPA spray and WD40.
would white spirit/trichlorethylene do as a plug soak B&Q is next door.:scratching_chin:

I will let you know how it goes, thank you all again.
Click to expand...


Alcohols are not great for mineral oils.
AVOID Trichloroethylene as it may attack plastic parts very quickly, like in seconds the red plug could become a sticky blob of goo and cables.

If you don't have access to an air-line I suggest

1. Clean the socket carefully with a bit of IPA spray and WD-40, and take great care not to bend any of the pins. Use IPA to finish as it will evaporate away more completely


2. It might be interesting to try GUNK on and in the red plug. It's great for taking oil out, but the problem might then be getting the Gunk out!

I think I would try petrol. Slosh the red plug in a small jar of petrol, and then dry it off in the fresh air.
 
Hey fellas,
@50 Pence... yes the engine runs... just totaly smaks of only four cylinders not the 5

@Charles... I used white spirit and WD40.. sloshed the plugs in a glass of white spirit then sprayed em with WD and let them soak for 5 mins then sloshed em in a glass of spirit again very very clean and no residue I couldn't properly or neatly refit the silicone seals so left em out for the moment they seem to big by about 5 mil all around.

no melted/disolved plastics :)

I reassembled it all and it ran again but still as before.:screaming_bug_eye_f

Hence i think its mechanical now not electrical.....
 
DJB said:
Hey fellas,
@50 Pence... yes the engine runs... just totaly smaks of only four cylinders not the 5.
Click to expand...

Sorry to labour my point DJB, but the engine will still run even if the pump is not working, therefore the fact that the engine runs does not mean that the pump MUST be working.

I,m only trying to help you rule stuff out.

Can you confirm that you can hear a buzzing from the rear with the ignition on ?, if so, then the pump COULD be ruled out.

Del.
 
Del,
No worries... the wife often need to labour the point for me to listen, its aa vital skill she has :))
I will go check, I had "presumed" that if the engine ran the pump was working my bad...

Where the best place to listern from.. underneath right near the tank?

D
 
you cant say what it is until you go through it one step at a time theres no point in trying other possibilities until youve cleaned connector at front were injector loom joins main loom, if that doesnt help and connector has oil in it change injector loom ,if that doesnt fix it,then move on to other possibilities ,at least your fixing faults as you rule out list of possibilities,each part has to be checked fixed before you move on to next
 
DJB said:
Del,
No worries... the wife often need to labour the point for me to listen, its aa vital skill she has :))
I will go check, I had "presumed" that if the engine ran the pump was working my bad...

Where the best place to listern from.. underneath right near the tank?

D
Click to expand...

Open the door, put the keys in and turn the ignition on, and stick your head at the rear drivers side wheel arch.

The pump should run for 20 odd seconds and then stop.

Del.
 
jamesmartin said:
you cant say what it is until you go through it one step at a time theres no point in trying other possibilities until youve cleaned connector at front were injector loom joins main loom, if that doesnt help and connector has oil in it change injector loom ,if that doesnt fix it,then move on to other possibilities ,at least your fixing faults as you rule out list of possibilities,each part has to be checked fixed before you move on to next
Click to expand...

This is the loom connector which james refers to at the front of the rocker cover housing.

images


The seals fail and the connector becomes flooded with oil.

Del.
 
Yep Pump is running, I can hear it hum when the ignition is switched on.

:5bhurray: something seems to work...
 
50 pence said:
This is the loom connector which james refers to at the front of the rocker cover housing.

images


The seals fail and the connector becomes flooded with oil.

Del.
Click to expand...


Indeed it does, BUT, generally speaking, oil there does not cause the bad running and misfiring problems.

That trouble seems to start when a certain amount of oil reaches the red plug at the ECU. The dirtier the oil, the more likely it is to cause trouble.

It isn't the OIL that causes the trouble, it's the carbon and metallic dirt in it which have a lower resistance (are conductive to a degree) and start making false 'connections' across pins that ought not to be connected.
 
and isnt that the same oil that comes from rocker box through injector loom ,whats the first connector it comes to , you should know if not blinded charlesy by trying to prove me wrong ,that logic is needed with any fault , you may get lucky but you fix known problems especially when they could be related before changing tack , it may well in the end be something else but it will be found easier by doing it properly ,how can you be 100% any injector readings are correct if loom connector is contaminated,and you tell me any car engine that uses non hydraulic tappets
 
Hi Del,
Thanks for your persistance it is greatly appreciated.
I have re cleaned and soaked all the plugs and scokets up to that part, to be honest I didnt remove the rocker cover and pull out the plug part with the 'O' ring on it today but I did clean it the day before yesterday with lots of WD 40 and let it soak and cleaned and let it dry..

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for this to be an electricl issue caused by oil ingress...

That was the guide I used... an excellent guide imo.

I am in South London for my sins and would welcome a pair of ears/eyes/nanocom visit.

I might order a harness but I am far from convinced that it will cure the problem, that said I could order some new injector o rings and copper washers at the same time because I want to get filters and a cam shaft seal. And just do the lot....
 
DJB said:
Hi Del,
Thanks for your persistance it is greatly appreciated.
I have re cleaned and soaked all the plugs and scokets up to that part, to be honest I didnt remove the rocker cover and pull out the plug part with the 'O' ring on it today but I did clean it the day before yesterday with lots of WD 40 and let it soak and cleaned and let it dry..

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for this to be an electricl issue caused by oil ingress...

That was the guide I used... an excellent guide imo.

I am in South London for my sins and would welcome a pair of ears/eyes/nanocom visit.

I might order a harness but I am far from convinced that it will cure the problem, that said I could order some new injector o rings and copper washers at the same time because I want to get filters and a cam shaft seal. And just do the lot....
Click to expand...

The trouble is with these kind of problems is that the injectors are always easy to blame.

Although straight forward enough, changing injector seals and washers has to be done with great care, and is not as easy to " tick off the list " as say a fuel filter of the injector harness.

As has been already suggested, work through all these things one by one. Even if it doesnt rectify our particular problem, changing a faulty injector harness or renewing the diesel filter are all good jobs done.

I really would suggest that you try to get it plugged in, as you are in the dark a little, and a diagnostic session could point you in the right direction.

Del.
 
DJB said:
Hi Del,
Thanks for your persistance it is greatly appreciated.
I have re cleaned and soaked all the plugs and scokets up to that part, to be honest I didnt remove the rocker cover and pull out the plug part with the 'O' ring on it today but I did clean it the day before yesterday with lots of WD 40 and let it soak and cleaned and let it dry..

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for this to be an electricl issue caused by oil ingress...

That was the guide I used... an excellent guide imo.

I am in South London for my sins and would welcome a pair of ears/eyes/nanocom visit.

I might order a harness but I am far from convinced that it will cure the problem, that said I could order some new injector o rings and copper washers at the same time because I want to get filters and a cam shaft seal. And just do the lot....
Click to expand...
connector is on outside of rocker box with insulated cover off easy to see and unclip ,rocker cover only needs removing to change loom ,oil leaks through wires internally into connector hence changing loom (£30ish)
 
i would recommend anyone with disco 2 or similar to get hawkeye or similar .it will save money in long run and at least with hawkeye as i cant say about other kits easy to use
 
jamesmartin said:
i would recommend anyone with disco 2 or similar to get hawkeye or similar .it will save money in long run and at least with hawkeye as i cant say about other kits easy to use
Click to expand...

I agree, only costs the same as a couple of tanks of fuel, and will pay for itself in no time.

Del.
 
I have a long list and nanocom EVO is on it :)

I agree with the logical steps approach and one problem at a time, that said if I am to take the rocker cover off to change the loom (£30), then I will change the injector washers and O rings, (£7) fit a new rocker gasket (£4) and cam shaft seal (£6).. then its all done. I will do the Oil filter's, airfilter and fuel filter at the same time. the lot comes to £78 on flea bay...

D
 
jamesmartin said:
and isnt that the same oil that comes from rocker box through injector loom ,whats the first connector it comes to , you should know if not blinded charlesy by trying to prove me wrong ,that logic is needed with any fault , you may get lucky but you fix known problems especially when they could be related before changing tack , it may well in the end be something else but it will be found easier by doing it properly ,how can you be 100% any injector readings are correct if loom connector is contaminated,and you tell me any car engine that uses non hydraulic tappets
Click to expand...

My Dear James,

You are so aggressive!

Car engines with non hydraulic tappets?
How about all LandRovers prior to TD5 for a start!
There are plenty others, some in current production, but fewer all the time.
But James, that fact has nothing to do with the present case.

It is the same oil, and the first connector is the one under the front right of the cylinder head. The problem does not happen NOT simply because that oil has reached there. The problem is that enough oil is present somewhere that allows or causes electrical interference between pins and connectors that should always be insulated from each other. AIR and indeed OIL are excellent 'di-electrics' (insulators) to us, but DIRTY oil is quite another thing. Dirty oil can become conductive.

Dirty oil may well conduct sufficiently to cause these problems, and as many TD5 owners know, it often does. I say again, in my experience, the troubles start when quite a lot of engine oil has reached the red plug and the ECU connector. I have a Hawkeye, and have used a Nanocom on TD5 Discos, and neither of these was able to detect a problem that was in fact oil pollution of the red plug and socket at the ECU, so I suggest that people don't assume that because Hawkeye /Nanocom can't detect a problem, that the oil problem doesn't exist. For example, one could have a TD5 running like a bag of nails because the injector washers were leaking, but no fault would show on Hawkeye or Nanocom. How could it?


I am not arguing with you James, or saying you are wrong (Heaven Forbid such a notion!) because as you know you are infallible. I merely offer my experience for what it is worth. Some people have found my advice helpful. Now please calm down James, and recognise that fact that you alone do not possess a monopoly of wisdom, and there may be others out there in Landyzone, prhaps even me, who have useful things to say.

Peace James.
 
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